I Shoot Too Well ~ I'm Too Accurate.

This is a discussion on I Shoot Too Well ~ I'm Too Accurate. within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Umm... TOO accurate? Your groups are going to open up all by themselves when the time comes, I promise you. I'll leave you with this: ...

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Thread: I Shoot Too Well ~ I'm Too Accurate.

  1. #16
    Member Array Pickpocket's Avatar
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    Umm... TOO accurate?

    Your groups are going to open up all by themselves when the time comes, I promise you.

    I'll leave you with this:
    I've seen people ahead of the reactionary curve (weapon at the ready) drop the first shot REAL low when reacting to a threat. Hell - I've done it, although someone had to tell me I did it because I sure didn't remember.
    Take into account that most every single CC person is going to be either within or behind the reactionary curve if you have to fire your weapon and you will unconsciously be trying to speed up time.

    Bottom line? Who shoots just once and waits for BG to cue the dramatic death-scene? If your training is at a level where you can realistically discuss intentional shot placement during moments of extreme stress then my hat's off to you.

    However - I think this falls into a category of technique that far too many people get sucked into: It's a valid technique, the theory is sound, but how many people do you know that are skilled enough to actually apply the technique correctly and effeciently?
    I would be more apt to buy into this if the miss rate statistics weren't so high.

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  3. #17
    Distinguished Member Array Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Well, I think PickPocket settled that!

    It sounds that he has some real world experience to back that up.

    I believe that 99.9% of us couldn't do it in a real world experience.

    On paper targets, heck we all get lucky when we are shooting for group and put 'em through the same hole sometimes, but not in a real gunfight.
    Why Ike, whatever do you mean? Maybe poker's just not your game Ike. I know! Let's have a spelling contest!

  4. #18
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    COM for me. Stress, movement and recoil will all affect bullet placement.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    for myself its enough to worry about hitting that moving cussing twisting sucker com till he falls down , while i am moving, cussing ,twisting and shooting . Hopefully ill continue to remain with the no of holes god gave me . Ill critique the scoring rings later so to speak .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
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  6. #20
    Distinguished Member Array RSSZ's Avatar
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    Don't know 'bout youz guyz but I'm soooo accurate that I have to worry about putting the second shot thru the first hole and etc. I actually have to aim "just a little" to the right or left less all 8 shots will be thru a .452" hole.

    YEAH,RIGHT. Who the heck came up with this one ????

    I could go on ....BUT.....why should I ???

    How 'bout this --> hang up a blank piece of 12 X 18" white paper. Tell all the "real" marksmen of the bunch,"take your time and put a single shot right in the center of the paper". Now,draw and fire your remaining (7 or so) shots as close as you can to the first hole. This in under 4 seconds with me screaming at you and waving stuff close by to distract you while shineing a very bright light very close to your face. Let me know the outcome please.---------

  7. #21
    Member Array joe/OH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSSZ
    How 'bout this --> hang up a blank piece of 12 X 18" white paper. Tell all the "real" marksmen of the bunch,"take your time and put a single shot right in the center of the paper". Now,draw and fire your remaining (7 or so) shots as close as you can to the first hole. This in under 4 seconds with me screaming at you and waving stuff close by to distract you while shineing a very bright light very close to your face. Let me know the outcome please.---------
    RSSZ - I just went outside and did exactly that. There was still only one hole in the paper. Guess I'll have to try to train to become less consistent.

    Joe

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array ssssthesnake's Avatar
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    my two cents dont know if im qualified but here goes. instructor im taking some basic combat hand gunning with had me shoot controlled one shot a second i was all over the target due to nerves usaly shoot real well.the he had me do three shots at a time when he yelled good guy bad guy and ran the target in towards me for three and six shot practice . happy to rport i shot better under the stress nice for inch groups in the nine and ten ring ps was great funn go back next week for more from the draw

  9. #23
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    I guess I don't have to worry about it. Obviously I have not reached the level of perfection the officers have. When I shoot fast, my hits spread out.

  10. #24
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    I am also joining in on the accurate shot placement in the COM.

    You are going to be under stress.

    The BG is moving.

    You had better be moving.

    Place all shots COM as long as it is available until something else becomes available to shoot at.

    If you want to see how good you really are I suggest this:

    Place a target 7 yards down range. Put your gun in your holster with cover garment in place. Go sprint for 100 yards at your best speed. (This will place you in approx. the same physiological condition that you will be in during a gunfight.) Return to your target and while moving diagonally away from the target shoot 2 shots COM then shoot two more COM and then a headshot. Fire all 5 shots in less than 5 seconds. Never stop moving while shooting.

    Now tell me guys, who was able to put two shots in the same hole?

    On another point here, we are dealing with a fluid medium for a target in a gunfight. All hits are going to cause hydrostatic damage. You are not going to open a hole like on paper in your target. Organs, blood, etc are going to shift as you fire and your target moves.

    I say learn to shoot accurately. On the range be able to put all your rounds in a nice 2" group. When the flag drops you will be able to place more shots to the COM than someone who can't keep those groups on the range.

    Just my .02 worth guys but I have seen the elephant.
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  11. #25
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    Think Rocky might have said it first, with all the "excitement" your point of aim will change some all by its self. I know I'm sure not going to try and move my point of aim at that point in a situation.
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

  12. #26
    Member Array Pickpocket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acparmed
    Place a target 7 yards down range. Put your gun in your holster with cover garment in place. Go sprint for 100 yards at your best speed. (This will place you in approx. the same physiological condition that you will be in during a gunfight.) Return to your target and while moving diagonally away from the target shoot 2 shots COM then shoot two more COM and then a headshot. Fire all 5 shots in less than 5 seconds. Never stop moving while shooting.

    Now tell me guys, who was able to put two shots in the same hole?
    Actually - let's keep it apples-to-apples:
    After you do your 100m sprint, place each shot at least 5"-6" away from the previous shot.

    Now - how many people didn't even hit the paper? :)

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Nobody ever died from a loud noise unless it was a heart attack and a heart patient. My point is that on the street, it's going to be vastly different than at the range and a lot of these idpa/range commandos might well wind up killing a lot of other innocent bystanders in the defense of self.. Speaking for myself, if I'm in an armed confrontation I'll be willing to take my time (maybe putting myself at some more risk) in order to be pretty sure (maybe not 100% sure...but pretty sure) that when I fire at a threat, that threat is going down and that I won't hit an innocent from one of my missed rounds. Speed is fine, accuracy is FINAL.

    I guess that's why I scored just "Marksman" at this last Saturday's IDPA "Qualifier." I've been shooting IDPA for almost ten years and still "just a marksman." What does that say? Well...I guess I'm consistent.

    In fact, the last qualifier I fired was just about nine years ago. What does THAT say about my abilities? Well my buddy (club President) made the observation that he thinks my knowldge base has increased by a factor of ten in all those years...but the sad fact is that I am in fact, now ten years older. Eyes find it tougher to acquire the front sight, joints a bit stiffer etc. What do y'all think?
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  14. #28
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    Hmmm, Ex, I think that's more truth than I wanted to be reminded about, esp. the eyes and joints.

    Thinking about the points you made, I can't help but wonder sometimes if speed isn't a bit over-rated. Not that it isn't important, but maybe the real emphasis should be just like you said - get the hit. It just may turn out that that little extra bit of time it takes to get a more accurate hit would be the difference between a hit and a fight stopping first hit.

  15. #29
    Distinguished Member Array Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle
    Thinking about the points you made, I can't help but wonder sometimes if speed isn't a bit over-rated. Not that it isn't important, but maybe the real emphasis should be just like you said - get the hit. It just may turn out that that little extra bit of time it takes to get a more accurate hit would be the difference between a hit and a fight stopping first hit.
    My friend Wyatt Earp once said to survive a gunfight you should take your time......quickly. I think he knows a good deal about surviving and winning a gunfight.

    These are the points that Ex and Tangle are making........
    Why Ike, whatever do you mean? Maybe poker's just not your game Ike. I know! Let's have a spelling contest!

  16. #30
    Member Array Pickpocket's Avatar
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    Oddly enough -
    We have just made an inadvertant argument FOR Threat-Focused training as a valuable skill.

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