Seeking Advice: long range rifle as well as AR15/M4 style rifle

This is a discussion on Seeking Advice: long range rifle as well as AR15/M4 style rifle within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I'm in the market to purchase two rifles for distinctive uses. First, I'm looking for a rifle for long range, 'sniper' style shooting for sport ...

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Thread: Seeking Advice: long range rifle as well as AR15/M4 style rifle

  1. #1
    Member Array ecrist's Avatar
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    Seeking Advice: long range rifle as well as AR15/M4 style rifle

    I'm in the market to purchase two rifles for distinctive uses.

    First, I'm looking for a rifle for long range, 'sniper' style shooting for sport and potential hunting in the future. I've always wanted to learn how to shoot long distances and would like a quality weapon to learn with. I'm thinking either .308 or .270, and have also considered 7mm Magnum, but really don't know what I need. I have a budget around $2000 for this weapon and that price needs to include a reasonable optic. I'm looking to also purchase a spotting scope, under a separate budget. Advice on both would be helpful. Please let me know *why* as well.

    Second, I'm looking for a solid AR15/M4 style rifle. I'm OK with iron sights, but would like advice on optics. All DPSM rifles I've seen have a non-detachable carry handle, so I'm not considering them at this time. I'd like something reliable, durable, and reasonably priced. My budget for this weapon is also around $2000 to include optics. The primary use for this weapon is a secondary home defense weapon. Advice on good quality defense ammunition would be appreciated. Any optics recommendations should have provisioning for use of iron sights as a backup.

    I don't want anything fancy, and would like to keep things 'tactical.' I don't like shiny, silver, or odd patterns/construction. Something matte, dark/camo and durable outdoors. This is why I also carry a Glock. ;)

    I've never owned a non muzzle-loading rifle, so I'm new to this for purchase. I'm OK with used, but also OK with buying new (preferred).

    Thanks a lot for your advice, I've gotten good information here many times in the past.
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    Member Array gilliland87's Avatar
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    advice on the long range gun

    I would strongly suggest that to learn and play in the long range bench/ tactical match format you start with a .308. Ammo choices abound from surplus to exotic match rounds. load data is in the excessive range and if you want to go that route optics with drop compensation matched to a load are available. As far as what gun optic combo $2000 leaves the door pretty wide open .
    Remington 700 short action get it re tubed with your choice of barrel ( preference would be a lilja palma 30b contour) and a stock of your choosing topped off with a "drop in" jewell trigger group would come in right around 2000 with enough left for a decent scope depending on who does the work. You should end up with a bolt gun capable of taking you the distance. omoymmv but I figure if you wanna play get the right gear outta the gate. There are also any number of company's offering built rifles and there are high end factory rifles that will accomplish these tasks as well Howa, Sako, CZ with the 2 stage set trigger.

  4. #3
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    Armalite AR10 in .308/7.62 for around $1400, SWFA Super Sniper 10X42 $300, Armalite 30mm one piece mount $100



    Noveske N4 Light Carbine $1500 add an M3 aimpoint for another $500

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    I don't know enough about ARs to help but as to long range shooting let me suggest Remington. The vast majority of custom long range shooting guns are built on Remington actions (or clones). Even their regular deer hunting guns routinely shoot sub moa out of the box. What I recommend is getting a nice Rem 700 in the caliber you want and avoid the added "tactical" premium you pay. My deer rifle (Rem 700 in .308) shot .5 to .75 inch groups out of the box. IMO the only real world advatage of a heavy bbl rifle is that they don't heat up as fast.

    If you absolutely need to have a heavy BBL rifle here are some suggestions in your price range:

    Remington

    Remington 700 LTR(Light Tactical Rifle) .308 20". : Bolt Action at GunBroker.com

    REMINGTON 700 XCR LR TACTICAL 26" GREEN 308 WIN : Bolt Action at GunBroker.com

    Remington 700 SPS Tactical Heavy BBL 308 NIB : Bolt Action at GunBroker.com

    Savage

    Savage 10 FP Tactical 308 24' Heavy M-30 6.5-25X44 : Bolt Action at GunBroker.com

    LNIB Savage TACTICAL LE Rifle 25.06 $250 in EXTRAS : Bolt Action at GunBroker.com

    Howa

    HOWA Axiom Varminter in .308 Win. NIB FREE S&H&I : Bolt Action at GunBroker.com

    HOWA 1500 AXIOM HB BLK AXIOM PG 20" 4RD 308 WIN : Bolt Action at GunBroker.com
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    Senior Member Array tbrenke's Avatar
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    I can only speak to the long range portion of your question. it is very hard to get better out of the box then a Remington 700. they have the reputation for a resion. a semi-auto is no contest to a bolt action at long range.

    second part. what range are you considereing? what are you planing to shoot?
    as stated above, the 308 has been the round of choise for a long time. if your looking at 500 yards+ then I would step it up a bit and go with a 300 Win mag for the flatter trajectory. 300 win mag is over kill for deer.
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    BAC
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    Warning: longer post, lots of links


    Long Range Rifle
    Quote Originally Posted by ecrist View Post
    First, I'm looking for a rifle for long range, 'sniper' style shooting for sport and potential hunting in the future. I've always wanted to learn how to shoot long distances and would like a quality weapon to learn with.
    A Remington 700 of some flavor in .243 Win, .260 Rem, or .308 Win would probably be one of the best entry-level rifles to get into long-range shooting. The 700 is the best supported bolt action rifle on the market, period. One can be had for $550 or less if you look around; buying used is also an option, and depending on how it shoots gives you an excuse to also buy a new barrel (). Buying a 700 in .308 means you're only a barrel change away from the other two calibers, and a good Lilja or similar barrel will cost $300 more. The three calibers I mentioned are all a breeze to shoot, easy to find, and easy to reload for. The .308 is the most generous for barrel life and has the most data out there, the .243 and .260 will outperform it at longer ranges. You'd have plenty of dough left for rings (Badger) and glass. Scope advise I'll defer to someone with more experience.


    AR-15
    Second, I'm looking for a solid AR15/M4 style rifle. I'm OK with iron sights, but would like advice on optics... I'd like something reliable, durable, and reasonably priced. My budget for this weapon is also around $2000 to include optics. The primary use for this weapon is a secondary home defense weapon. Advice on good quality defense ammunition would be appreciated. Any optics recommendations should have provisioning for use of iron sights as a backup.
    Given your primary listed use and requirements, there are a few ways to go. If you just want to buy and not build or assemble: CD Defense M4LE, Colt 6920, Daniel Defense XV or M4 Carbine (hell of a deal), LMT 16" carbine, Noveske N4 Lite Carbine.

    If you don't mind buying a separate upper and lower: Bravo Company BFH 16" upper plus BCG and charging handle will run you $945, or an LMT 14.5" carbine (w/ pinned flash hider) or 16" carbine with BCG, charging handle, and a Daniel Defense 7" carbine-length Lite, M4, or Omega X rail will run you about the same. I personally prefer the longer rails (lite, M4, and Omega X) because they let you grip the rifle a little further out, but thatís personal preference. Strictly speaking, you get a better deal from the BCM upper because itís already assembled and has a better barrel. Assembling your own lower would keep it below $300 (stripped lower receiver, M4 stock kit, lower parts kit); buying an assembled lower (like this) would cost between $250 and $500 depending on the stock you get/want.

    The main reason I'm suggesting rails and rifles with rails is because if it's a home defense weapon you want a white light for it. The easiest place to mount lights is to rails; I have a Midwest Industries FSB mount on my rifle, and others run a similar setup through more than this civilian does, so I know it's viable, but it's a compromise. A G2 LED, Vltor Scout Mount, and MI FSB mount can't compare to a dedicated weaponlight, but it is a good bit cheaper than most. For optics, I like Aimpoint. They're durable as hell and batteries last long enough that you can always leave them on. An H1 + mount or Comp ML3 + mount will are nearly the same price; the H1 is smaller and lighter, but is less "bad-cheek-weld" friendly and a little more expensive. With most of the rifles above you should be able to get a rifle + mag + optics for less than $2k.


    Ammo for AR-15
    I strongly suggest reading this post by Dr. Gary Roberts describing appropriate 5.56mm rounds for personal defense. It's a worthwhile read. I compiled that page plus a little more information here as well.


    Hope all of this helps.


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  8. #7
    Distinguished Member Array AutoFan's Avatar
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    For your long range rifle I'd suggest a Savage due to the variety, Accu-trigger, ease in switching barrels and accuracy out of the box. The action is not as smooth as a Remington, but that is only a minor issue in my opinion. Get a good scope (Nikon, Leupold, etc.), it makes a world of difference.

    As far as the AR goes, get a 16" barrel, a removable handle (or flat top) and a quality red dot. That is as far as I'm going to get into that swamp - there are too many people out there who have their favorite (or hated) brand. Look into the AR-15 "ammo oracle" article for what to feed it.

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    Winchester Model 70 is mt first choice for your long distance gun, second is a Remington 700. My Model 70 in 270 makes me look like a sniper on regular occasion. I would go .270 or .308 as well. Get the model 70 with the "pre-64" style action with the claw extractor, and not the push feed. They are awesome rifles. I have a Nikon Monarch in 3-9x40, but if money allows go for the 4.5-14x50 I would have if I had known better. Leupold in a VX-III is also a quality piece, I also like Schmidt and Bender, Kahles, and Swarovski. The new Dura Touch stocks are excellent and very rugged., black and camo. you choose.

    AR I have a Colt a3, I believe it is a 6721 HBar. It is a tack driver and has a removable handle for optics. I currently use an Aimpoint M2 witha Larue quick detach. But for a maginified optic, I would go to a Trijicon ACOG. They are expensive but worth the money. Make sure you co-witness your optic with your irons in case you optic takes a crapper. A 16" barrel and Adjustable stock are also a must. Hope this helps.
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