Now I know I am buying a Trijicon sight!!! - Page 2

Now I know I am buying a Trijicon sight!!!

This is a discussion on Now I know I am buying a Trijicon sight!!! within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; And I assume the lawyers are OK with "Infidel" printed on everything from dust covers to hats and Tshirts, knives, and assorted widgets?...

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Thread: Now I know I am buying a Trijicon sight!!!

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    And I assume the lawyers are OK with "Infidel" printed on everything from dust covers to hats and Tshirts, knives, and assorted widgets?


  2. #17
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    Μολὼν λαβέ

    memento mori


  3. #18
    Member Array torgo1968's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamRudolph View Post
    ... and if the government has a problem with it, then they can renegotiate the next contracts to have different serial numbers. Trijicon has never tried to hide the fact that the verse references are on their optics.
    I'm not asking for punishment. Just not doing it on future gear.

    For years this has been a nonissue, until someone went out of their way to be offended by it. Someone, incidentally, if the one former Air Force lawyer is representative of them all, who has probably never carried a weapon in uniform and has nothing better to do than go around and find things to be offended by.
    It is 100% irrelevant who brought the complaint. And why do you keep saying "going out of the way" to be offended? I don't even know what that means. Do you think some militant atheist goes around examining government-purchased products on the off chance he finds something like this?

    As to the latter, I'd be fine with "There is no God" engraved on components of weapons I use or own.
    I'm an atheist and I'd be furious if government equipment said, "There is no God." It's disappointing to see disregard for the first amendment in a forum that so values the second.

    It would seem the height of politically correct horse manure to stop buying the best product available because some POG got offended at the serial number system on them.
    One man's "politically correct horse manure" is another man's "blatant violation of church/state separation". And this isn't an isolated issue. Proselytizing in the military is a real issue and a quote from one particular religion's holy book (what a coincidence, the same religion that is pushed on soldiers) on a soldier's equipment is one more thing to add to the pile.

  4. #19
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    I posted comments on this topic in the other thread which was killed.

    Again, briefly, when a contract is issued by the US Government it will always contain boilerplate language that binds the contractor to perform their duties in compliance with law, and with agency regulations, and to purchaser's specifications.

    If Tricon accepted a military contract it should have adhered to whatever requirement the military purchasing authority placed-- including any prohibition against such inscriptions.

    My dad used to manufacture clothing which was sold by places like Penny's and Learners. You better believe that if the buyer wanted pink buttons that is the way the merchandise would be manufactured. If the buyer didn't like the look of the label, you can bet the label got changed.

    Tricon had a choice. Not complying with their contract terms (if that is what happened) wasn't one of them.

  5. #20
    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    Hopyard, maybe you didn't get a chance to read my response in the other thread... but for what it's worth, the units delivered to the gov't don't appear to have the markings.

    M4Carbine.net Forums - View Single Post - Check your Trijicon for bible verses

    Guys, give it a rest, please.

  6. #21
    Member Array Angry Bill's Avatar
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    Honestly, shouldn't the reporters at ABC news be bird dogging the folks in washington DC for dirty dealings? You can't tell me there ain't a mountain of material with all the money flying around in DC. So, instead, a couple of private part time reporters got to put the smack down on ACORN.

    I say, sc**w ABC and buy this optic for the fact it DOES have biblical references.
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  7. #22
    Senior Member Array cuban11182's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    If Tricon accepted a military contract it should have adhered to whatever requirement the military purchasing authority placed-- including any prohibition against such inscriptions.

    Tricon had a choice. Not complying with their contract terms (if that is what happened) wasn't one of them.
    I know most people on this board are Christians and are pretty proud of it. Muslims are proud of their religion as well (some a little extreme, but so are some Christians). BTW, I'm an athiest too, so I'm not taking sides.

    I spoke with my old man about this. He is a 22 year VFW who contracts for the US Army and works on weapons sent back from overseas so they can be rearmored and sent back. A contract is a contract is a contract. If you break the terms of that contract it should be null and void. One of the stipulations of providing products for the military is that they don't have this sort of stuff. I guess we will end up seeing how much political pull Trijicon has.

  8. #23
    Member Array Angry Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DblTap View Post
    I put the TA31H-G on my M4 back in December. All I can say is AWESOME.
    So much more of a true weapon sight than the EoTech 552 and 3X FTS I was running before. The new green horseshoe reticle is fantastic,
    Dangit, now why did you go and say a thing like that? Now I got to check out the TA31H-G.
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  9. #24
    Member Array noonan's Avatar
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    I just got a TA01ECOS 4x32 and oh my god no pun intended it is the greatest attachment you can get for an m4 it is unbelievable. I haven't looked at the serial number yet...
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  10. #25
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    Then there is no issue. re: chooie

    Quote Originally Posted by Chooie View Post
    Hopyard, maybe you didn't get a chance to read my response in the other thread... but for what it's worth, the units delivered to the gov't don't appear to have the markings.

    M4Carbine.net Forums - View Single Post - Check your Trijicon for bible verses

    Guys, give it a rest, please.
    Then there is no issue. They can do whatever they want with the product for the consumer market. People can choose to buy it or not.

    Sounds like a total non-issue if these didn't in fact go to the military.

  11. #26
    Member Array torgo1968's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Then there is no issue. They can do whatever they want with the product for the consumer market. People can choose to buy it or not.

    Sounds like a total non-issue if these didn't in fact go to the military.
    Trijicon seems to disagree.

    Trijicon confirmed to ABCNews.com that it adds the biblical codes to the sights sold to the U.S. military.
    Also:
    A photo on a Department of Defense Web site shows Iraqi soldiers being trained by U.S. troops with a rifle equipped with the bible-coded sights.
    And they show the photo.

    Finally:
    Weinstein, an attorney and former Air Force officer, said many members of his group who currently serve in the military have complained about the markings on the sights.
    If the sights don't have the markings, then it would appear that ABC didn't merely misinterpret the facts, or mistakenly assume that the civilian markings are identical to the military versions, but fabricated photos and unambiguous statements from Trijicon and currently serving soldiers. Not likely.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siafu View Post
    I started the earlier thread by simply linking to the ABC News article. I don't understand why it was canned. It was legitimate news and was an appropriate "weapons" based topic and posted in the right sub-category. Sometimes I think the mods here are a little too overzealous.
    I'm going to say three things here and I expect them to be taken as constructive.

    1)If you want to know why your thread was removed send a PM to any moderator and he or she will find out and respond. Making comments about the mods is a good way to find yourself on the outside. Here is what Bumper has to say on the subject.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bumper View Post
    And, finally, a very important point, if you have any grievances with the actions of the staff, it is best handled privately rather than open forum. A simple PM is usually all it takes, as answering questions and concerns regarding the forum is part of our job. I would ask you to remember that our staff are all volunteers and spend hundreds of hours "on the job" here every week. Civility and respect, the trademark of this forum, is expected in communications with our staff, just as it is with our other members. Getting an attitude in communications with staff either privately or in open forum will rarely get your concern addressed satisfactorily and will often jeopardize your membership.
    2) The thread was removed because it had gotten to the point where the same nonconstructive comments were being repeated and nothing constructive was being added. Personally I would have closed the thread and left it there, but the moderator who removed it determined otherwise.

    3) This thread is rapidly deteriorating and will face a similar demise unless things improve.
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  13. #28
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    Torgo, I was responding to Chooie's post and his statement,
    "the units delivered to the gov't don't appear to have the markings."

    I have no idea where the truth is; with chooie or with ABC. As far as I'm concerned the markings don't belong on sights sold to the government, and if that has happened I consider that either flat wrong or possibly just an innocent mistake. I guess the military will have to make a determination of the facts and deal with a broken contract if the contract was in fact disregarded.

    Or, ABC will need to retract or correct their story.

  14. #29
    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    I am merely pointing out what another anonymous member of an Internet forum posted. that itself means take it with a grain of salt, but I took it to mean that if he is telling the truth and 40/40 of the optics he checked bear no markings, and he is also telling the truth about being a gov't armorer, then at least in some fashion trijicon refrained from casting or machining biblical verses onto those sights. I have no reason to believe he would lie over such a subject, but again, for what it's worth, demand may have been so high that the .mil decided to tell trijicon to go ahead and send retail boxed optics to get them onto the guns fighting over in the sandbox more quickly.

  15. #30
    New Member Array JasonJDelmon's Avatar
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    I think it is cool. If a company wants to put verses from the Koran and compete, lets see how it sells.

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