Trijicon offers to stop putting biblical references on military scopes

This is a discussion on Trijicon offers to stop putting biblical references on military scopes within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Ill be just like everone else I guess and apologize for offending you mister athiest I guess!!!! But here is the thing first and foremost ...

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Thread: Trijicon offers to stop putting biblical references on military scopes

  1. #16
    mrm
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    Ill be just like everone else I guess and apologize for offending you mister athiest I guess!!!! But here is the thing first and foremost nobody put them on there secretly it was on there all along and when they were asked they came right out and said ya thats what it is. I comend them for that, I dont commend them for not taking a stand and saying what of it and telling athiest us CHRISTIANS are tired of rolling over to you people thinking you are the God of youself and me
    "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
    - Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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  3. #17
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    After the initial news report, the Muslim Public Affairs Council called on Defense Secretary Robert Gates to withdraw from combat use weapons that have sights with the biblical references.

    "Allowing religious references to be placed on U.S. weaponry, which are bought and paid for by U.S. taxpayers, is unacceptable," MPAC Executive Director Salam Al-Marayati wrote in a letter to Gates, according to the council's Web site.

    "Such inscriptions not only run afoul of the Constitution and U.S. military rules, but they also feed into the violent extremists' narrative that the ongoing wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are a 'crusade against Islam.' "


    Where were these folks when their friends were blowing or trying to blow up planes over detroit or elsewhere, now they are heard loud and clear. This is where I have my complaints all of a sudden, now they want to be heard loud and clear and whine and say the Constitution is being run afoul of, good gracious, what a load of crap, the Sec of Def should have said tough crap and take a hike.
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

  4. #18
    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuban11182 View Post
    My problem is that they went against what their, and all, contracts say. That's it.
    Bingo.

    If they choose to do business for the DOD and sign contracts that prohibit proselytizing (the act of attempting to convert people to another religion) we should expect them to comply. Since when is living up to your contractual obligations a bad thing?
    "a reminder that no law can replace personal responsibility" - Bill Clinton 2010.

  5. #19
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    (the act of attempting to convert people to another religion)
    Really now, how many even had a clue, they have been doing it for over 30 years. I seriously doubt that a reference to a Bible verse is trying to convert anyone to a "religion" as most people wouldnt even know what it was.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  6. #20
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    Since when is living up to your contractual obligations a bad thing?
    Since it apparently offends "Christians" that they no longer get free ad space on government owned property...

    Intolerance, folks, is intolerance, no matter what brand name it falls under. Get over yourselves, or go form your own caliphate somewhere else.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
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    Crusade against Islam?

    Wait... so it was us that hijacked planes and crashed them into mosques?

    Tripe. Perhaps the MPAC should ask Islamic terrorists to stop shouting "Allahu Akbar!" as they cut off a prisoner's head with a dull knife.

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array Grant48's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuban11182 View Post
    My problem is that they went against what their, and all, contracts say. That's it.
    Agreed. Breaching terms of a contract is quite unprofessional.

    With that said, I think the choice of those particular bible verses is kinda cool.

  9. #23
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    Breaching terms of a contract is quite unprofessional
    Or you might consider that since it has been going on for over 30 years, that perhaps it was known about and just ignored. It simply wasnt an issue until the right person blew a fuse over it.

    I seriously doubt that that contract had specific exclusions about Bible verses in it.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Or you might consider that since it has been going on for over 30 years, that perhaps it was known about and just ignored. It simply wasnt an issue until the right person blew a fuse over it.

    I seriously doubt that that contract had specific exclusions about Bible verses in it.
    ALL government contracts have verbiage against favoring or promoting one religion over another. If these were Koranic passages, what would the reaction be?
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  11. #25
    Senior Member Array tbrenke's Avatar
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    ROTF,
    "Such inscriptions not only run afoul of the Constitution and U.S. military rules, but they also feed into the violent extremists' narrative that the ongoing wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are a 'crusade against Islam.' "

    and shooting them with a rifle that has one of these scopes on it does not feed into the violent extremists' narrative?

    anything can be twisted into a offence if need be.
    close gitmo, it is offensive.
    do not fight back, it is offensive.
    do not shoot the muslim that is firing at you, it is offensive.
    "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution, which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." -1792, James Madison
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    There are countries in which christianity is the official state religion, but the government of those countries too found this offensive and have insisted on the problem being corrected. Specifically, New Zealand and Australia.

    So, let me see here, since this was found to be a wrong practice in countries where christianity is the official state religion, why are some christians here so insistent that the inscriptions be kept in place? Why do you think the inscriptions are OK when the governments of officially christian nations do not? Do you think those governments are discriminating against their own official religion? There's some sort of disconnect here.

    You live in the nation with the most freedom of religion anywhere on earth but keep talking as if somehow everyone is against you. Here's a solution, if you don't like the constitutional provision against establishment, seek migration to places with a state religion; there are plenty to choose from. And some of them will even let you practice your own brand without interference from the government, just like here.

  13. #27
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    ALL government contracts have verbiage against favoring or promoting one religion over another. If these were Koranic passages, what would the reaction be?
    Negative. Perhaps a Master Contract does, but how many people ever see that? The Government contracts that I have seen have no such language. Mostly its a simple outline of requirements and standards for what ever it needs.

    If they were Koranic passages, how many people would recognize it as such?
    Probably about the same amount that noticed the Scriputal Reference for the last 30 years. We have over 100 armed guards where I work that use that sight everyday and not one of them have ever so much as mentioned it.

    Like I stated earlier, its much ado about nothing.


    Unless of course, one has nothing better to do.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  14. #28
    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    Who complained? Major Nadal Hasan?

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    I just think it is hilarious that the issue has become a Bible reference buried in a serial number instead of the soldier using it to target the person who is supposedly offended by the reference. Hint: Muslim extremists already view it as a jihad, i.e. holy war. It's not a night sight that gave them that idea.

    That said, the Marines told them that they didn't want it so the company relented. That's it...tempest in a teapot. No big deal. This was something that they didn't publicize but didn't deny, and when a customer asked for a concession they gave it. The ACOG you might get at home will have it.

    Listen everyone, I am a right-wing Jesus freak and I am having a hard time seeing the fuss over this. This was what Trijicon did for a LONG time. The Marines became aware and asked that they remove it as a courtesy. Trijicon obliged their customer; it wasn't obviously a "hill they were willing to fight for." And this is a huge row why exactly?

    Yawn.
    "...whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one." (Luke 22:36)
    Christianity and Self Defense from a Biblical Perspective

  16. #30
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    Intolerance is what it is. Hence the dust-up.

    As is failure to meet contract obligations. Though without the religious "fan" aspect of it all, it would hardly have reached "biblical" proportions. It would simply be another change made in the arrangement, thousands of which we never hear of in contracts for all sorts to our government, year after year after year.

    Trijicon can easily solve the problem. If personal proselytizing is what a given order is seeking to achieve, then the customer can order the scopes with certain customized lettering. Leupold offers this customization service. If a customer wants it and pays for it, they'd get it; if not, not. Solved, and nobody's offended, beyond those who will no longer get something for nothing. I, too, don't see the problem, or the newsworthiness. An issue was raised, and Trijicon complied. 'Nuff said, as it's no different than thousands of other changes on other contracts. Someone's knickers bound too tightly on this one, though. Tough toenails. Get over it, indeed.

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