Trijicon offers to stop putting biblical references on military scopes

This is a discussion on Trijicon offers to stop putting biblical references on military scopes within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Rob P. wrote: "it's the fact that you can't see or admit that it's WRONG for you to steal my rights. Or that you can't ...

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Thread: Trijicon offers to stop putting biblical references on military scopes

  1. #61
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    Rob P. wrote: "it's the fact that you can't see or admit that it's WRONG for you to steal my rights. Or that you can't see that it's wrong for you to proselytize your beliefs upon me behind my back and then try to tell me that I'm the one who is at fault for it."

    Bingo. That summarizes what the company attempted to do and what its defenders are attempting to defend.

    Even governments in New Zealand and Australia with christianity as the official state religion found the actions of the manufacturer unacceptable. How much more so here, where the laws and ordinary civility itself, do and should, argue against what was done.

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  3. #62
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    Bingo. That summarizes what the company attempted to do and what its defenders are attempting to defend.
    Baloney.

    The references were there long before most of the timid offended folk were even born.

    The fact that they were out in the open and plain to see and the offended folk didn't have a clue what they even meant until someone told them is part of the reason that they choose to be offended, because they were too stupid to figure it out.

    Now that they know, they gnash their teeth and moan and groan about an issue that wasn't even an issue until they huddled up, got together and decided, oh my god, its such a terrible thing to do, play tricks on us like that.

    Grown men supposedly.

    And the world continues to get crazier by the day.
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  4. #63
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    HG-- Sorry, but you completely misunderstand the nature of the offense. That was, btw, what I think Rob P's point was. "that you can't see that it's wrong "

    You just confirmed that.

  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    HG-- Sorry, but you completely misunderstand the nature of the offense. That was, btw, what I think Rob P's point was. "that you can't see that it's wrong "

    You just confirmed that.
    Yeah, we get it. They were sneaky, bad Christians that offended the easily offended.
    "In a republic this rule ought to be observed: that the majority should not have the predominant power." -
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  6. #65
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    It occurs to me that it was pressure from Muslim groups on the federal government that prompted the pressure be passed along to Trijicon. Seems Muslims were “concerned” that the heretofore unknown and hidden message was tantamount to the federal government pursuing a “Crusade” against Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan. So in reality, what happened here is that the federal government did endorse a religious view. The Muslim view.

    And I have to wonder also, does this mean that I have to remove the cross that I see every time I look through my scope now?

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    For any of a group of people like those who gather at forums like this, who would presumably be unanimous in their condemnation of the Assault Weapons Ban on the grounds that it banned nothing more than meaningless, cosmetic features of a weapon, to get all nuclear wedgied over this is beyond my rather impressive comprehension skills to grasp.

    I totally agree with those who say this is much ado about less than nothing.

    Blues
    "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." -- George Washington

  7. #66
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    HG-- Sorry, but you completely misunderstand the nature of the offense. That was, btw, what I think Rob P's point was. "that you can't see that it's wrong "

    You just confirmed that.
    Wrong again.

    BluesStringer's post hit the nail on the head, so I will quote it rather than rewrite it.
    It occurs to me that it was pressure from Muslim groups on the federal government that prompted the pressure be passed along to Trijicon. Seems Muslims were “concerned” that the heretofore unknown and hidden message was tantamount to the federal government pursuing a “Crusade” against Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan. So in reality, what happened here is that the federal government did endorse a religious view. The Muslim view.

    And I have to wonder also, does this mean that I have to remove the cross that I see every time I look through my scope now?

    Censored:
    For any of a group of people like those who gather at forums like this, who would presumably be unanimous in their condemnation of the Assault Weapons Ban on the grounds that it banned nothing more than meaningless, cosmetic features of a weapon, to get all nuclear wedgied over this is beyond my rather impressive comprehension skills to grasp.

    I totally agree with those who say this is much ado about less than nothing.
    I understand perfectly. Its about allowing ANYTHING other than a Christian Reference. A private company inscribed some Biblical verses on a scope.

    If you dont like it, dont buy it. To buy it and complain about it is about as stupid as it gets.

    And that is exactly what our wonderful Federal Government has done. If you cant see it for what it is, so be it.
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

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  8. #67
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    to the above two posts' (HG and BS) It wasn't a point until a religious group (BTW that isn't to found of our way of life) pointed it out and then it was just the heads of the services that made this decision. Don't say the whole Military, because they are not the whole military, trust me I know.
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

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    Heads of Services and making decisions

    Quote Originally Posted by Guardian View Post
    and then it was just the heads of the services that made this decision. .
    That's their job. To uphold the constitution and the laws of the United States.

  10. #69
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    I would like to ask those who think that they are standing for the upholding of the Constitution by demanding the removal of the Scriptural references to answer a question. I am not trying to pick a fight with anyone, I'm only trying to understand where a strong opinion favoring the "wall of separation" interpretation of the First Amendment comes from.

    If you had to choose between the two following interpretations of original intent of the First Amendment, which one would you choose?

    1) The "Establishment Clause" of the First Amendment is intended to protect the free exercise of religion from being influenced/restricted by government.

    2) The "Establishment Clause" of the First Amendment is intended to protect government from being influenced by religion and/or religious citizens.

    Please don't take the "middle-of-the-road' position and say that it means both. Pick one. If you answer that it's #2, please provide some citation(s) from Madison, Adams, Jefferson or any prominent Founder justifying such an interpretation. Hopefully something more substantial and more deeply-rooted in constitutional law than a cherry-picked phrase out of a personal letter between private citizens. Thanks.

    Blues
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  11. #70
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    I can't imagine what our founding fathers would say about this particular issue. Actually, I think they'd be dumbfounded by the stupidity and bewildered by the attention it's getting.

    This really offends people?
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  12. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Baloney.

    The references were there long before most of the timid offended folk were even born.
    AGE of the act is not any defense. In fact it is possible proof that the actions by Trijicon were intended to be concealed.

    The fact that they were out in the open and plain to see and the offended folk didn't have a clue what they even meant until someone told them is part of the reason that they choose to be offended, because they were too stupid to figure it out.
    So, stupid people don't have any rights? Morons can be forced to wear shirts with "F____ the Christians" in the artificial 'Klingon' language on them? And they shouldn't be offended if they can't figure it out? And, once they are told, or they do figure it out, they can't complain just because they're "stupid?"

    Now that they know, they gnash their teeth and moan and groan about an issue that wasn't even an issue until they huddled up, got together and decided, oh my god, its such a terrible thing to do, play tricks on us like that.

    Grown men supposedly.

    And the world continues to get crazier by the day.
    A good analogy to this would be if your kid were to go to a school that suddenly revealed that ALL the students had been, and were required, to carry a backpack that says "your religion sucks" hidden on it in code. You likely would transfer your kid out of that school as fast as you can. And, you'd be OK with it (as would I BTW).

    BUT, you'd be screaming mad if you couldn't pull your kid out of that school. Well, unfortunately, our military CAN'T stop carrying the "hidden message." And, it's not OK just because YOU PERSONALLY LIKE the "message."

    It's not about YOU. It's about you FORCING me. And it's really sad that you call us "stupid" because it was hidden for years before we discovered it and complained. WHO is the real BG here? The ones who did this surreptitiously or the ones who were unknowingly duped by them?

  13. #72
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    It's a good thing these have been retired. Can you imagine how pilots today would be offended by having to fly a plane called a Crusader? What about those being bombed by one?
    Of course in today's PC world, that would never happen. We'd have to call it the F8 Secular Tourist.
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  14. #73
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    As a former tanker in the Army, the 2ND Armored Division was often criticized because our shoulder patch and division motto was “Hell on Wheels”. In our current pantywaist society, we have to please the ACLU, communists, and those that seek to kill us. As long as Obama is in office, this is the way it will be.
    “Monsters are real and so are ghosts. They live inside of us, and sometimes they win.”
    ~ Stephen King

  15. #74
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    Now that everyone has had their say in the matter, and because its being played over and over and over, I am closing this thread.

    Time to move on.
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

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