TOKAREV vs CZ52

[Macattack]

Ok guys I just got a bunch(about5k) rounds of 7.62x25 tokarev ammo from my uncle. I could sell it im sure but hey any excuse to add another toy to the safe

It looks like the only pistols available are the tokarev and cz52.

I like the looks of the cz better but have heard that the tokarev is more reliable and easy to obtain.

What do you guys think.

Anyone own one or both or know a good place to buy one.
www.classicarms.us has one for 210 w/ 2 mags

Also ammo is so rediculusly cheap at $70 700 rds in a can

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[Rmac58]

Handle both, get what "fits".

[randytulsa2]

I'd have to agree with Rmac58, or tell you just to get both 'cause they're both probably fairly inexpensive for pistols.

I had some CZ-52's once (if you have a C&R FFL, they can be shipped right to your door!) and they were reliable, tough pistols that slung brass into the next county.

Their sights were so far off that I'd have to aim about three feet low at 7 yards (not kidding), but the groups they shot were tight.

Either way, lots of fun. Enjoy burning up that ammo!

[EW3]

Check with your range; some will not allow this high-velocity round in an indoor range as apparently the backstop is damaged by it.

[Shadowsbane]

You switch out the firing pin on the CZ, as well as make sure you never use the decocker, and it will be the far superior weapon than the Tok.

Especially since the CZs are built to handle the higher pressured rounds that are commonly found on the surplus market.

[Siafu]

Check with your range; some will not allow this high-velocity round in an indoor range as apparently the backstop is damaged by it.

I have read that it is an a**kicking little round. Lots of power in a small package with reliable feeding due to cartridge shape. Buy one from Classic Arms Inc. and let us all know how it works out.

[AutoFan]

Based on my experience with my and a friends CZ52, I'd get the Tok. We had firing pins break, the hold open wouldn't, the decocker would fire one of the guns, the sights were small and off, and the roller bearings flattened.

[levi333]

I had a CZ52, TTC-33, and M57 which is a TTC with a slightly longer grip.
I kept the M57. Just didn't care for the grip on the CZ, and don't like heel mag releases.
The CZ looks the coolest, but I liked it the least.

[gumaro]

I have both, they fit very different, grip wise. The CZ doesn't have a slide release, you have to make sure the decocker works or you will have a discharge, you need to upgrade the firing pin, and has a heel mag release. The TTC has the different grip angle that takes some getting used to. They both are good pistols to have , but I wouldn't consider them as carry guns. They make good plinking pieces, but you have to make sure of your backstop. The 7.62x25 Tok surplus round will defeat most body armor. If you can try both from a friend or gun shop and get the one that you like best.

[Rmac58]

Do not dry fire a CZ 52. If the slide won't stay back, you have a faulty magazine, that's what keeps it back.
Don't use high powered Romanian ammo.
Mine is accurate at 25 yards anyway. No elevation adjustments. Perhaps a pre firing downward flinch.

[Shadowsbane]

The 7.62x25 Tok surplus round will defeat most body armor. If you can try both from a friend or gun shop and get the one that you like best.

Have any data on that? The only such I have found seems to indicate that a level IIA vest and up will be just fine with just about everything that round has to offer. Outside of handloaded ammunition that is.

Granted that has been the internet talk since forever.

[gumaro]

Have any data on that? The only such I have found seems to indicate that a level IIA vest and up will be just fine with just about everything that round has to offer. Outside of handloaded ammunition that is.

Granted that has been the internet talk since forever.

Here is some info, and it will also go through both sides of a Kevlar helmet. I'm not of sure about level III, but I'm guessing that the steel core ammo might penetrate at least one side.


"Proven-the 7.62x25 Tokarev Kevlar Penetration Issue

Brass Fetcher Ballistic Testing
7.62x25mm Sellier & Bellot 85gr FMJ vs. NIJ II vest
AP 3 (7.62x25mm FMJ)

Test # AP 3
Bare gelatin. (Nominal 10% concentration)

Cartridge : 7.62x25mm Sellior & Bellot 85gr FMJ

Block Calibration :
Primary block : 4.6 ± 0.05 inch penetration @ 591 ± 0.5 ft/sec

Vest was draped over the face of the gelatin block. Vest was ‘new old stock’ but never issued. Fabric was Kevlar 29.

Bullet Performance:

Impact Velocity : 1521 ± 0.5 feet/second
Deepest Penetration Depth : 11.8 ± 0.05 Inch
Maximum Crack Diameter : NR
Max Crack Diameter Location : NR
Cavitation Depth : NR

Notes:
Weapon – CZ 52, with 4.6” barrel length
Distance – 10 feet, muzzle to gelatin impact face
Test site conditions - 72 deg F
Time out of refrigeration prior to shot impact - 5 minutes
Bullet recovered weight – NR
Bullet recovered average diameter – 0.462”
Bullet recovered length – NR


Please visit the website above for a picture of the gelatin showing penetration and performance.

Level II Kevlar is the second highest rated soft 'concealable' body armor by the National Institute of Justice.
It will stop 9 mm FMJ, at ~1,175 fps,or .357 JSP at ~ 1,395 fps,for example.
Being concealable, available for purchase over the internet, and highly rated, you better believe its out there in the wrong hands. A prime example of this is the extreme lengths to which Larry Eugene Phillips Jr, and Emil Matasareanu went to armor themselves for their shootout with police in the now infamous 'North Hollywood Shootout' on February 28, 1997.

Deepest Penetration Depth : 11.8 ± 0.05 Inch-Thats almost the 'required' 12 inches of penetration AFTER TOTALLY DEFEATING a level II vest. And thats a basic FMJ with standard lead core, available over the counter by Sellier and Bellot.
Also, please note that the FMJ projectile actually EXPANDED to ABOVE .45 caliber-Bullet recovered average diameter – 0.462.The weight might not be there, but the penetration and the diameter sure is. And I'll be willing to bet it expanded to that diameter because of breaching that vest, so were looking at a .46 caliber hole for just shy of 12 inches-in other words, this is a .46 caliber wound passing the total length of 'soft tissue' terminal ballistics all the way thru the 'bad guy'-AFTER defeating his vest.

For more information and to see how other 'penetrators' stack up, go here-"

Armor Penetration

[Macattack]

Thanks so far guys. Maybe leaning for the tok. Neither are anywhere in my area at gun stores/friends etc. And of course I don't plan on it being a carry gun. Maybe with alot of reliability tests I may consider it a saltwater fishing gun.(I worry about my 1911 if I fall/jump in after an escaping king!!!)

My range is no prob as it is out door with sand and tire backstops against the side of a clay hill. Shoot rifles there all the time and a russian guy always shoots his ppsh there(I already asked him by the way)

Saw an article about the m57 and how its grip is longer. It would prob be my first choice, but seems to be harder to find and more expensive.

Any experience with the romanian tok? 210 is hard to beat... will prob go with that.


Any other places to buy these? I know some of you guys have little secret web sites that you know of that sells these so come on and share!!!