One shot stops. Important?

[Captain38]

I'm ASSUMING the original poster, when he mentions shooting a lot of .357 and .40 rounds that he is referring to the .357 SIG semi-auto pistol round rather than the .357 Magnum revolver round, because, with a handgun, the .357 Magnum in 125 grain jacketed hollow point configuration fired from a four (4) inch barrel DOES provide the closest thing to 100% one shot stops! In fact, when it was routinely being used by law enforcement, it was sometimes called the "magic bullet"!

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[atctimmy]

I'm ASSUMING the original poster, when he mentions shooting a lot of .357 and .40 rounds that he is referring to the .357 SIG semi-auto pistol round rather than the .357 Magnum revolver round, because, with a handgun, the .357 Magnum in 125 grain jacketed hollow point configuration fired from a four (4) inch barrel DOES provide the closest thing to 100% one shot stops! In fact, when it was routinely being used by law enforcement, it was sometimes called the "magic bullet"!

You know what happens when you assume....357 mag in a 2 inch 5 shot snubbie. I know it hits hard but it beats the poop out of me. Like I said I shoot it plenty but I shoot the 9 twice as fast and with better accuracy.

[kpw]

I'm ASSUMING the original poster, when he mentions shooting a lot of .357 and .40 rounds that he is referring to the .357 SIG semi-auto pistol round rather than the .357 Magnum revolver round, because, with a handgun, the .357 Magnum in 125 grain jacketed hollow point configuration fired from a four (4) inch barrel DOES provide the closest thing to 100% one shot stops! In fact, when it was routinely being used by law enforcement, it was sometimes called the "magic bullet"!

Not all 125s are the same. Those reputations were, for the most part, earned by the Federal and Remington versions. Today, there are a number of 125s that are ballistically weaker than the old standbys and even compared to the hotter 9mm loads. More like .357 mini-mags.

atctimmy, given like bullet weights and designs at similar velocities, which one would make you feel more comfortable if needed?

[atctimmy]

atctimmy, given like bullet weights and designs at similar velocities, which one would make you feel more comfortable if needed?

I didn't open this thread to talk about me. I'm using my experience as an example. I want to talk about the 9 and whether the poor one shot stop rating is a myth (with good ammo).

[JohnK87]

The FBI used to use the 9mm. After the big shootout, they decided they needed a round that was bigger and more powerful.

It's a balance between capacity and penetration. 9's you can carry a lot, great for suppressing fire, but they don't hit like a .40 or .45. If you're going to get a hit, you want it to be as hard as possible.

[HK Dan]

To summarize "Tactical Anatomy" by Dr. Jim Williams; it's impossible to tell the caliber of a bullet simply by measuring the wound channel. All service caliber pistol rounds have a similar ballistic effect. Whether JHP or FMJ, virtually all shots to the torso are through and through, unless they strike the T-Spine or another major structure.

Jim summed it up really well--carry what you like and can shoot well. It's all about shot placement, and you should not feel under gunned with a 9mm or invulnerable with a .45 ACP.

For the record, Jim carries a .45 ACP and is a Master in CDP.

Dan

[mojust]

I think it's a trade off. The .40 hits harder (but not that much) and the nine is easier to control. I've gotten where I can put four 9 mm rounds center mass in a little over 1 second.

I love them all. I went to the range with my snubby the other day and shot a box of 38 special followed by a box of .357. It's practice.

[mojust]

One Shot Stops Important?

Though ideal...Just exactly HOW important will vary and be relative to the scenario.
If there are three bad guys running at you & trying to kill you and one has a tire iron and one sports a machete and the other a baseball bat....and you are armed with a 5 shot revolver...then going for "one shot stops" becomes incredibly important.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Is it possible that a 9mm is not a wimp gun but just faster and easier to shoot, creating more hits and a poorer one shot stop rating? Instead of getting 2 shots off and hitting 1, we get 5 shots off and hit 4, is multiple hits really a badge of honor and not a curse? discuss..."

The 9mm - Oh you mean the .380 LONG cartridge?
It's possible that it's not a wimp cartridge.
On a serious note, there is some logical truth to that. To a degree.
If "faster and easier to shoot" was exclusively KING then a high capacity .22 LR would be the ideal self-defense firearm?
Because instead of getting 5 shots off and hitting with 4...you could get 12 shots off and hit with 11.
My suggestion is for folks to carry the most powerful cartridge that they can shoot accurately and access quickly.

It's incredibly important to carry the self-defensive firearm in a manner that it can be accessed lightning fast AKA ASAP.
That is more important than an attempted one shot stop.
If the BG is "closing in fast" and ready to violently cave in your skull & your defense gun is way down in your pants keeping company with your jingle-berries then the County Coroner is going to take your forensic PIC laying there with your "gun hand" down your Fruit Of The Loomer Bloomers.
So NEVER carry any deeper or more "concealed" than is absolutely necessary.
Always being able to get to your firearm quickly (and I mean fast) usually trumps caliber and/or capacity.
That is my personal opinion. Others may have a differing opinion which is fine with me.
For the majority of self-defense scenarios I (personally) would much rather have a proved reliable .380 that I can access in one second (or less) than a 17 shot 9mm that I could only get into play in 3 or 4 seconds.
Again...just my personal opinion.

For me my personal "carry ideal" is a single stack .45acp carried OWB which is easy to shoot (suffers some on capacity) conceals very well (on me) POINTS NATURALLY where I look...and has a lightning quick presentation with a crisp, consistent, trigger.

For somebody else it will be different but, I only have to worry about saving my own "tushy" and not theirs.

Shoot one and the others will take off running.

[mojust]

The FBI used to use the 9mm. After the big shootout, they decided they needed a round that was bigger and more powerful.

It's a balance between capacity and penetration. 9's you can carry a lot, great for suppressing fire, but they don't hit like a .40 or .45. If you're going to get a hit, you want it to be as hard as possible.

That was a long time ago. 9 mm ammunition has developed considerably since. As I remember, the bgs were using assault rifles against which pistols were a poor choice. I think most agencies carry m16s now for such situations.

[Eagleks]

Is it possible that a 9mm is not a wimp gun but just faster and easier to shoot, creating more hits and a poorer one shot stop rating? Instead of getting 2 shots off and hitting 1, we get 5 shots off and hit 4. Is multiple hits really a badge of honor and not a curse? discuss...

That's how I look at it. However, I've gone back to carrying my .357 more often now, because in timed tests.... I can shoot 7 shots out of my .357 at the same rate as 9-10 out of the 9mm, and do it much more accurately. Best of both worlds for me.

[ccwguy]

Even more important... and I learned it here... "anything worth shooting once is worth shooting twice."

[Guardian]

I never gave the one shot stop any thought and never will. That's just my personal view on it.

[Eagleks]

I watched a video on TV where they showed police chasing a 20 yr old in a car. He phoned home and left them a message, he was sorry but this was the last time they would hear from him. When they pitted him and he came to a stop, he came out shooting. He and the officer were about 8-10 ft away from each other when the shooting started and about 40 ft apart when it ended ... the whole time in the 'open' ... did not use the car for cover.

On the 2nd - 3rd shot the 20 yr old dropped..... but was still shooting , although hit. The officer and the following officer... did not stop shooting until their guns were empty and there was no gun fire coming from the 20 yr old anymore. He was killed. Neither officer was injured.

I would hate to even try to count the # of shots fired... a bunch.

One shot .. stop .... makes for good movies.

[Knightrider]

You know what happens when you assume....357 mag in a 2 inch 5 shot snubbie. I know it hits hard but it beats the poop out of me. Like I said I shoot it plenty but I shoot the 9 twice as fast and with better accuracy.

You know that a 357 mag coming out of a 2 inch barrel has the same or less effective then a 9mm coming out of a 3-3.5 inch barrel. A 357 mag is only good in a 4 inch barrel or longer. I would go with the 9mm.

As for this whole debate on 9mm vs .40. As far as todays ammo go, a 9mm is just as good as a .40 but with out the snappy recoil and less ammo space IMO

[retsupt99]

I never gave the one shot stop any thought and never will. That's just my personal view on it.

Here is the best answer to the OP's original question......and I couldn't agree more.