One shot stops. Important?

One shot stops. Important?

This is a discussion on One shot stops. Important? within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; My question is this: We put so much focus on one shot stops but does it really mean anything? I've been shooting .357s and .40s ...

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  1. #1
    Array atctimmy's Avatar
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    One shot stops. Important?

    My question is this: We put so much focus on one shot stops but does it really mean anything?

    I've been shooting .357s and .40s for years because they hit harder than a 9mm. My thinking is that I may have been wrong this whole time. When I shoot a CCW sized pistol I can shoot (and hit with) my wife's 9mm faster than my .357. So is accuracy and fast follow ups the reason that soooo many times we see bgs with multiple 9mm hits?

    Is it possible that a 9mm is not a wimp gun but just faster and easier to shoot, creating more hits and a poorer one shot stop rating? Instead of getting 2 shots off and hitting 1, we get 5 shots off and hit 4. Is multiple hits really a badge of honor and not a curse? discuss...
    Last edited by atctimmy; March 8th, 2010 at 10:04 AM. Reason: grammar
    My name is Frogman46 and I'm tougher than you.

  2. #2
    Array SIXTO's Avatar
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    Yes, I think you get multiple hits simply because there are multiple hits to be delivered with the auto pistol and the style of shooting in supports.
    "Just blame Sixto"

    I reserve the right to make fun, point and laugh etc.

  3. #3
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    I can shoot my 40S&W rounds just as fast if not faster than a 9mm.... I give it partly to the fact that my gun has a low bore axis and a well balanced slide. Both of which allow me for good well placed shots as well as fast follow ups...

    I suggest more training with your .357 and 40S&W natural point and aim techniques if you have never tried them. YOU as a human while in a gun fight will naturally focus on the BG or threat, not on your sights (i.e. Crimson Trace Lasers are good for this reason) but natural point and aim techniques are useful in some cases.
    NRA Certified Rifle/Pistol Instructor

    Accuracy ALWAYS WINS! So carry what you can hit with.

    If you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics stink.

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  5. #4
    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    IMO, no.

    I can only imagine that if I am ever in a situation where I need to shoot I will not shoot only one shot. Heck, I train to get off 5 rds as fast a possible. Why would anyone rely on a one shot stop? I've never really understood that. My G19 gets back on target faster than my S&W 45 or my P3AT .380. There is a lot of talk of making one good shot or shot placement. I prefer to believe in shot'S placement, the more the better. Seems to me that if they were a big enough threat to justify shooting, then they continue to be a threat as long as they are upright. Unless they are actually running away from you.

    I don't do the caliber wars thing either. I carry a 9mm for many reasons. I train with it and have no problems trusting it. If anyone shoot's better with X, Y or Z caliber then that's the one for you. But if you are relying on a one shot stop, you may want to do some research on that. I'm not betting my life on it.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

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  6. #5
    kpw is offline
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    Considering the ammo available today for the 9mm. I don't see the .357 or .40 offering too much of a effective advantage. In similar guns, most people can deliver more shots accurately much faster with the 9mm than any other major power chamberings. There are some very good 124 gr loads at 12-1300 fps that pretty much duplicate a .357 125gr out of a shorter than 4" barrel but in a easier to shoot package. People don't usually call a .357 snub wimpy but some have no problem labeling the 9mm so.
    "In a republic this rule ought to be observed: that the majority should not have the predominant power." -
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  7. #6
    Member Array DIXIETWISTER's Avatar
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    One shot stop???? better be using a .30 caliber rifle or better. All common handgun rounds are not up for the one shot kill, ecxept headshot.
    You may not like guns. You may choose not to own one. That is your right.
    You might not believe in God. That is your choice.
    However, if someone breaks into your home at 3AM the first two things you are going to do are:
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    2)Pray they get there in time." - A wise man

  8. #7
    Array QKShooter's Avatar
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    One Shot Stops Important?

    Though ideal...Just exactly HOW important will vary and be relative to the scenario.
    If there are three bad guys running at you & trying to kill you and one has a tire iron and one sports a machete and the other a baseball bat....and you are armed with a 5 shot revolver...then going for "one shot stops" becomes incredibly important.

    "Is it possible that a 9mm is not a wimp gun but just faster and easier to shoot, creating more hits and a poorer one shot stop rating? Instead of getting 2 shots off and hitting 1, we get 5 shots off and hit 4, is multiple hits really a badge of honor and not a curse? discuss..."

    The 9mm - Oh you mean the .380 LONG cartridge?
    It's possible that it's not a wimp cartridge.
    On a serious note, there is some logical truth to that. To a degree.
    If "faster and easier to shoot" was exclusively KING then a high capacity .22 LR would be the ideal self-defense firearm?
    Because instead of getting 5 shots off and hitting with could get 12 shots off and hit with 11.
    My suggestion is for folks to carry the most powerful cartridge that they can shoot accurately and access quickly.

    It's incredibly important to carry the self-defensive firearm in a manner that it can be accessed lightning fast AKA ASAP.
    That is more important than an attempted one shot stop.
    If the BG is "closing in fast" and ready to violently cave in your skull & your defense gun is way down in your pants keeping company with your jingle-berries then the County Coroner is going to take your forensic PIC laying there with your "gun hand" down your Fruit Of The Loomer Bloomers.
    So NEVER carry any deeper or more "concealed" than is absolutely necessary.
    Always being able to get to your firearm quickly (and I mean fast) usually trumps caliber and/or capacity.
    That is my personal opinion. Others may have a differing opinion which is fine with me.
    For the majority of self-defense scenarios I (personally) would much rather have a proved reliable .380 that I can access in one second (or less) than a 17 shot 9mm that I could only get into play in 3 or 4 seconds.
    Again...just my personal opinion.

    For me my personal "carry ideal" is a single stack .45acp carried OWB which is easy to shoot (suffers some on capacity) conceals very well (on me) POINTS NATURALLY where I look...and has a lightning quick presentation with a crisp, consistent, trigger.

    For somebody else it will be different but, I only have to worry about saving my own "tushy" and not theirs.

  9. #8
    Member Array wolf88's Avatar
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    i train with my g21 i cant put 13 down range very fast and keep them all in the "zone" are they all on the X no but within 3" yes jsut gotta practice.

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
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    Hiding inside a bottle of Jim Beam Black in S. FL.
    I personally feel one shot with anything is probably pretty discouraging to anyone with more than two working brain cells.
    Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon at large.
    Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  11. #10
    mrm is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I personally feel one shot with anything is probably pretty discouraging to anyone with more than two working brain cells.
    "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
    - Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

  12. #11
    Distinguished Member Array MinistrMalic's Avatar
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    I believe that accuracy is king, especially in this day and age when ballistics and bullet design are so much improved over even a decade ago. A 9mm is just as effective as a .45 in real-life scenarios, in which the deciding factor is shot placement. No pistol round has anything resembling "stopping power." That is Hollywood pure and simple.

    So carry the gun that you can reliably and consistently put multiple shots on target quickly.

    And carry a couple of backup mags for when things get really hairy.
    "...whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one." (Luke 22:36)
    Christianity and Self Defense from a Biblical Perspective

  13. #12
    Array atctimmy's Avatar
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    Thanks for the input. To all the folks who said train harder...You guys make me laugh. I do train. I shoot a ton although, due to ammo price, not as much as I'd like. I train with a master class shooter as a coach and use a timer to measure splits. My splits are just plain better with a 9mm. Remember folks we are talking about small pistols here. I'm comparing my Karh CW9 vs my .357 snubby and a couple of small .40s.

    I shoot my full size double stack 1911 style .40 quite fast, but I don't use it for anything other than IPSC.
    My name is Frogman46 and I'm tougher than you.

  14. #13
    Member Array richgp100z's Avatar
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    With all of my guns that I use for self defense,I go for the eyes. 158 grain .357SJSPs in my Rugers SP101 and GP100s. richgp100z

  15. #14
    VIP Member Array Madcap_Magician's Avatar
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    I'm not a big believer in the one shot stop as the factor of overriding importance in choosing a carry gun or caliber.

    For one, one shot stops are pretty fickle. They depend on shot placement, caliber, the mental and emotional state of the person being shot, and dozens of other factors, many of which are completely uncontrollable. And, to be honest, they depend on the congruence of the stars with just the right amount of luck.

    For another, anyone worth shooting is worth shooting multiple times.

    And lastly, the terminal performance of any high-end ammunition in 9mm, .40, or .45 is so close that any difference is probably practically meaningless. Is a .45 .1 inch wider than a 9mm? Yes. Fully expanded, a .45 jacketed hollow point is a bit bigger than a 9mm. But the odds of that making a difference would seem to be practically nonexistent.

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    The simple fact is that all shooting are one shot stops. Now whether it's the first shot or tenth, you shoot to stop the threat and the last shot is the one that stopped the threat if you do it right.

    So many people get into the single shot, double taps, Mozambique drill, routines that they forget that you may need a few more to finish what the bad guy started.

    Don't be the one that shoots two rounds and holsters because that's how you trained just to realize that the foe is still going.

    Personally, if it takes the entire magazine (clip for the anal retentive type) then that's fine, that's what it took to stop the threat.

    If you shoot better with a 9mm then by all means keep going, don't let caliber wars sway your choice.

    I like 9mm because it's still cheaper to shoot and that equates to more range time.

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