Fake LEO invasions - Page 3

Fake LEO invasions

This is a discussion on Fake LEO invasions within the Home (And Away From Home) Defense Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I guess the point I was trying to make is that people have the right do defend themselves against a break-in or home invasion depending ...

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  1. #31
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    I guess the point I was trying to make is that people have the right do defend themselves against a break-in or home invasion depending on their State laws regarding Castle Doctrine and other laws.

    There is no doubt Home Invasions seem to be on the rise and people have a right to be fearful of a Home Invasion.

    The ruse of impersonating a Swat Team as a means of gaining compliance by a Home Invasion Crew has been documented, and does happen, however it has been a relatively rare phenomenon. However, a lot of people seem to have seen even that tactic being somewhat used more frequently than it was used say 10 or 12 years ago.

    Also legitimate Swat teams getting the wrong address has happened... for whatever the reason, it really doesn't matter... It happens. However it is an extremely rare occurrence from what I have seen. And more than likely much more rare than the Swat Team ruse being used by criminals. Our team, as well as countless other Swat teams have never gotten the wrong address on a No-Knock Warrant before. Knock on wood. Proper planning reduces the likelihood in cases like that.

    Unlike SIXTO, I don't plan them, get the warrants signed, and all that. I'm just part of the stack with a specific function and focus, (just one of three team medics). If more than one medic is available for a call-out, only one is part of the entry team. The other remaining medic(s) work at the command post or on the perimeter to assist with evac, treatment & rehab. I train with them, I shoot with them and I carry a gun to defend myself and other officers. I do not have powers of arrest or any control of the team, or it's function other than medical officer. My primary function is to render aid to any and all gunshot or injured people whether they be an LEO, a bad guy or an innocent person in the target house. So I'm there to try and prevent anyone from dying should an injury occur or gunfire erupt.

    I also pointed out that you engage such an event with gunfire at your own risk! And that in the end.... If you ultimately survive such an engagement, the chances are more than likely your adversaries were in fact, criminals as opposed to legitimate LEO's. For the simple fact that Real LEO's are likely to kill you instead of retreat at the onset of gunfire. In other words, the Real Police are not going to run away.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."


  2. #32
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    No knock warrants, etc., are part of this subject, I guess. The OP was meant to start a conversation between LEO and civilian on the best way to discern and handle a home invasion masqueraded as LEO no knock entry.

    Maybe I'm asking too much. There has been some subtle hostility towards LEO in a few posts.

    Perhaps we can't solve the problem, but we could make some progress in dialogue, yes?

    Some posts have suggested that if the invasion is a legitimate LEO entry, you won't survive; as opposed to an illegal invasion. Yeah, we want to be able to avoid this very thing!
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    No knock warrants, etc., are part of this subject, I guess. The OP was meant to start a conversation between LEO and civilian on the best way to discern and handle a home invasion masqueraded as LEO no knock entry.

    Maybe I'm asking too much. There has been some subtle hostility towards LEO in a few posts.

    Perhaps we can't solve the problem, but we could make some progress in dialogue, yes?

    Some posts have suggested that if the invasion is a legitimate LEO entry, you won't survive; as opposed to an illegal invasion. Yeah, we want to be able to avoid this very thing!
    People tend to fear things they don't understand; hence the subtle hostility. Most people have no experience with such things other than what they hear and see on TV.

    My posts never implied one would not survive a real SWAT entry. I fact implied just the opposite.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    People tend to fear things they don't understand; hence the subtle hostility. Most people have no experience with such things other than what they hear and see on TV.

    My posts never implied one would not survive a real SWAT entry. I fact implied just the opposite.

    I may have been out of line in that aspect on my post and for that I apologize to everyone.

    As I pointed out in my last post, the whole point we have medics is to do our best to prevent anyone from dying if at all possible. That includes the bad guys or innocent civilians as well as our team members.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  5. #35
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    I don't think zacii aimed that comment you or I Bark'n. I just wanted to make it clear that is not what I said or implied.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Wolves have been masquerading as sheep since the beginning of time. No knocks have very little to do with the home invasion robbery. Its simply a method of entry or diversion. Once that is understood, I think people will have a much better idea how to protect and prevent such things happening to them.
    I think a closer analogy is that it's the wolves impersonating the sheepdogs. The sheepdogs are using tactics which I consider questionable morally and constitutionally. The wolves are using this to their advantage because, as this thread demonstrates, the sheep are starting to have a hard time discerning between the wolf and the sheepdog kicking in the barn door. If the sheepdog didn't employ this tactic, then the sheep would know that any who kick in the door are a threat.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by lifehertz View Post
    I think a closer analogy is that it's the wolves impersonating the sheepdogs. The sheepdogs are using tactics which I consider questionable morally and constitutionally. The wolves are using this to their advantage because, as this thread demonstrates, the sheep are starting to have a hard time discerning between the wolf and the sheepdog kicking in the barn door. If the sheepdog didn't employ this tactic, then the sheep would know that any who kick in the door are a threat.
    I see what you are saying, and I would agree in theory. However its just not applicable in real life. First, no knock warrants are tough to get. When you do get them, there are a lot of parameters and protocol used to ensure safety. That is were my statement of it being over before you even knew what had happened came from.

    Second, it will be obvious to the situational aware that its the real deal and not a gang of thugs. I'm not going to give away trade secrets over the internet; but you will know its the police.

    It takes minimal effort for somebody to follow the very simple steps I've outlined in previous posts. No knocks are not going to go away. They are there and an important tool to LE. Its of no matter if you like 'em or not. That is not what this thread is about anyway.

    I think you have a better chance of being struck by lightning than being a victim of a warrant being served on the wrong house, but if that is were we want to dwell, that's OK I suppose. We all have our demons.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  8. #38
    Member Array mcgyver210's Avatar
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    Luckily since I do business with the city most LEOs know us or have heard of us but IMO one wrong address for a warrant No-Knock or not that results in an innocent victim is too many. The only way to prevent this is to have better checks, balances & most important consequences not excuses.

    I also disagree with the assumption you will definitely know it is the Police since criminal types are getting smarter & smarter on impersonating. Just think anyone with half a brain can get uniforms, patches, Badges, IDs, vehicles & what ever else is needed. If it is trade secret I of course wouldn't know what is real & what is a home invasion. Not being trying to be anti LEO just being a realist.



    One more thing I do know that the majority of LEOs are good & I personally haven't had any really bad experiences with any LEOs. It is really ashamed that their is so much fear & mistrust of LEOs now days.

  9. #39
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    uniforms, ID's or other trinkets is not what I was referencing with 'trade secrets'.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  10. #40
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    I just watched that WHOLE DAMN VIDEO about "Don't talk to police". It was actually pretty interesting!
    Last edited by HuttoAg96; April 1st, 2010 at 01:13 AM. Reason: thousands of posts between mine and the link

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuttoAg96 View Post
    I just watched that WHOLE DAMN VIDEO about "Don't talk to police". It was actually pretty interesting!
    I recommend this one as well: YouTube - BUSTED: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    uniforms, ID's or other trinkets is not what I was referencing with 'trade secrets'.
    Your missing my point there is really nothing that can't be copied or imitated. As for trade secrets I know a few (don't ask how it is a secret LOL) but definitely not all. But any secret not generally known to the public isn't going to fly as definitive proof to me.

    The other problem is the type of activity being discussed is very dangerous for LEOs also for many reasons.

    Wasn't that long ago I heard of a local marked cruiser being stolen in my area which caused the rethinking of security for cruisers. I bet it could have been used for criminal activity before it was recovered although it wasn't in this incident.

    Sixto you seem like a good officer but I am very opinionated this is probably why I was never a good employee so I had to own businesses to make a living so maybe we can agree to disagree LOL

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