Actually happened - In England

Actually happened - In England

This is a discussion on Actually happened - In England within the Home (And Away From Home) Defense Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; You're sound asleep when you hear a thump outside your bedroom door. Half-awake, and nearly paralyzed with fear, you hear muffled whispers. At least two ...

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Thread: Actually happened - In England

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array ArmyCop's Avatar
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    Actually happened - In England

    You're sound asleep when you hear
    a thump outside your bedroom door.
    Half-awake, and nearly paralyzed with fear,
    you hear muffled whispers.
    At least two people have broken into your
    house and are moving your way.
    With your heart pumping, you reach down
    beside your bed and pick up your shotgun.
    You rack a shell into the chamber, then inch
    toward the door and open it.
    In the darkness, you make out two shadows.


    One holds something that looks like a crowbar.
    When the intruder brandishes it as if to strike,
    you raise the shotgun and fire.
    The blast knocks both thugs to the floor.
    One writhes and screams while the second
    man crawls to the front door and lurches outside.
    As you pick up the telephone to call police,
    you know you're in trouble.
    In your country, most guns were outlawed years
    before, and the few that are privately owned
    are so stringently regulated as to make them useless.
    Yours was never registered.
    Police arrive and inform you
    that the second burglar has died.
    They arrest you for First Degree Murder
    and Illegal Possession of a Firearm.
    When you talk to your attorney, he tells
    you not to worry: authorities will probably
    plea the case down to manslaughter.
    "What kind of sentence will I get?" you ask.


    "Only ten-to-twelve years,"
    he replies, as if that's nothing.
    "Behave yourself, and you'll be out in seven."
    The next day, the shooting is the lead
    story in the local newspaper.
    Somehow, you're portrayed as an eccentric
    vigilante while the two men you shot
    are represented as choirboys.
    Their friends and relatives can't find
    an unkind word to say about them.
    Buried deep down in the article, authorities acknowledge that both "victims" have been arrested numerous times.
    But the next day's headline says it all:
    "Lovable Rogue Son Didn't Deserve to Die."
    The thieves have been transformed from career criminals into Robin Hood-type pranksters..
    As the days wear on, the story takes wings.
    The national media picks it up,
    then the international media.
    The surviving burglar has become a folk hero.
    Your attorney says the thief is preparing
    to sue you, and he'll probably win.
    The media publishes reports that your home has been burglarized several times in the past and that you've been critical of local police for their lack
    of effort in apprehending the suspects.
    After the last break-in, you told your neighbor
    that you would be prepared next time.
    The District Attorney uses this to allege
    that you were lying in wait for the burglars.
    A few months later, you go to trial.
    The charges haven't been reduced,
    as your lawyer had so confidently predicted.
    When you take the stand, your anger at
    the injustice of it all works against you..
    Prosecutors paint a picture of you
    as a mean, vengeful man.
    It doesn't take long for the jury to convict
    you of all charges.


    The judge sentences you to life in prison.


    This case really happened.


    On August 22, 1999, Tony Martin of Emneth, Norfolk , England , killed one burglar and wounded a second.
    In April, 2000, he was convicted
    and is now serving a life term..
    How did it become a crime to defend one's
    own life in the once great British Empire ?
    It started with the Pistols Act of 1903.
    This seemingly reasonable law forbade selling pistols to minors or felons and established that handgun sales were to be made only to those who had a license. The Firearms Act of 1920 expanded licensing to include not only handguns but all firearms except shotguns.
    Later laws passed in 1953 and 1967 outlawed the carrying of any weapon by private citizens and mandated the registration of all shotguns.




    Momentum for total handgun confiscation began in earnest after the Hungerford mass shooting in 1987. Michael Ryan, a mentally disturbed man with a Kalashnikov rifle, walked down the streets shooting everyone he saw.

    When the smoke cleared, 17 people were dead.




    The British public, already de-sensitized by eighty years of "gun control", demanded even tougher restrictions. (The seizure of all privately owned handguns was the objective even though Ryan used a rifle.)




    Nine years later, at Dunblane , Scotland , Thomas Hamilton used a semi-automatic weapon to murder 16 children and a teacher at a public school.




    For many years, the media had portrayed all gun owners as mentally unstable or worse, criminals. Now the press had a real kook with which to beat up law-abiding gun owners. Day after day, week after week, the media gave up all pretense of objectivity and demanded a total ban on all handguns. The Dunblane Inquiry, a few months later, sealed the fate of the few sidearms still owned by private citizens.




    During the years in which the British government incrementally took away most gun rights, the notion that a citizen had the right to armed self-defense came to be seen as vigilantism. Authorities refused to grant gun licenses to people who were threatened, claiming that self-defense was no longer considered a reason to own a gun. Citizens who shot burglars or robbers or rapists were charged while the real criminals were released.




    Indeed, after the Martin shooting, a police spokesman was quoted as saying, "We cannot have people take the law into their own hands."




    All of Martin's neighbors had been robbed numerous times, and several elderly people were severely injured in beatings by young thugs who had no fear of the consequences. Martin himself, a collector of antiques, had seen most of his collection trashed or stolen by burglars.




    When the Dunblane Inquiry ended, citizens who owned handguns were given three months to turn them over to local authorities.

    Being good British subjects, most people obeyed the law. The few who didn't were visited by police and threatened with ten-year prison sentences if they didn't comply.

    Police later bragged that they'd taken nearly 200,000 handguns from private citizens.




    How did the authorities know who had handguns?

    The guns had been registered and licensed.

    Kind of like cars. Sound familiar?




    WAKE UP AMERICA ; THIS IS WHY OUR FOUNDING FATHERS PUT THE SECOND AMENDMENT IN OUR CONSTITUTION.




    "..It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.."




    --Samuel Adams


    If you think this is important,
    please forward to everyone you know.
    You had better wake up, because your new
    president is going to do this very same thing
    over here if he can get it done..
    And there are stupid people in congress and
    on the street that will go right along with him.
    For God, Family and Country!


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Most of the Brits with whom I have been able to discuss our laws as opposed to theirs with regard to gun ownership and armed self defense have seemed to think that we are just "hoot owl crazy" over here. There are exceptions of course and hopefully in numbers that will grow in time, but for those who love British law as it is now, well, they deserve what they support and vote for. I hope for better common sense for them the same as I wish it for California, New York, and Illinois.

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    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
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    The moral of the story is don't let it happen here!

    You say slippery slope, and people tell you that you are paranoid. But don't let "them" make you shy away from your convictions and your rights. The Brits used to have some of the same rights we do, but they were taken away.
    Walk softly ...

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigStick View Post
    The moral of the story is don't let it happen here!

    You say slippery slope, and people tell you that you are paranoid. But don't let "them" make you shy away from your convictions and your rights. The Brits used to have some of the same rights we do, but they were taken away.
    As near as I can tell they were given away.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array ep1953's Avatar
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    How sad.

    Isn't England were we get the term "castle doctrine" from? Just shows how bad the situation can get when good people allow the passage of a few "common sense" laws.

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    Member Array Bandolero's Avatar
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    Wasn't his sentence drastically reduced on appeal, and the charge reduced to manslaughter? And wasn't he already released?

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array ep1953's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bandolero View Post
    Wasn't his sentence drastically reduced on appeal, and the charge reduced to manslaughter? And wasn't he already released?
    Well Hurray! I'm soooo glad to hear he got a reduced sentence for defending himself in his own home.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array gilraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ep1953 View Post
    Well Hurray! I'm soooo glad to hear he got a reduced sentence for defending himself in his own home.
    Hindsight is better than no-sight at all. Maybe it's one step closer to sanity on the subject.
    "I pledge allegiance to the war banner of the united states of Totalitaria. And to the Republic, which no longer stands, several bankers, who are now god, indivisible, with Bernanke bucks and credit for all."

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    Member Array Bandolero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ep1953 View Post
    Well Hurray! I'm soooo glad to hear he got a reduced sentence for defending himself in his own home.
    I think there is a huge difference between a post that states somebody is presently serving life in prison, when in fact they are not even in prison at all and have not been for something like 7-years. No more, no less.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array ep1953's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bandolero View Post
    I think there is a huge difference between a post that states somebody is presently serving life in prison, when in fact they are not even in prison at all and have not been for something like 7-years. No more, no less.
    Well personally I think it is BS that the man spent a DAY in prison for defending himself in his own home. According to your information he still stands convicted of manslaughter. I don't know how much time he actually spent in prison but as I said ANY time in prison for defending himself is absolutely unacceptable!

  11. #11
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    Tony Martin also had problems with the evidence presented. Forensics showed he pulled the trigger at a location other than Martin had testified. Additionally, Martin's story had inconsistencies.

    Basically, Martin had defended his residence, but had to lie about some things. His precedent set England back to the dark ages as far as self defense is concerned. It's all too bad, too. Maybe one day the media will figure it out.

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ep1953 View Post
    Well personally I think it is BS that the man spent a DAY in prison for defending himself in his own home. According to your information he still stands convicted of manslaughter. I don't know how much time he actually spent in prison but as I said ANY time in prison for defending himself is absolutely unacceptable!

    Agreed.

    The British people are no more than slaves without the means to defend themselves.

    How completely pathetic. How far must mankind slip? To deny the rights of self-defense is to deny the right to life. Everything is upside down, the criminals are the victims and the victims are the criminals...
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  13. #13
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    Shotgun farmer wins shorter jail term

    I find it interesting he had to be ruled and labeled as having a paranoid personality disorder in order to get the reduced sentence. Still it beats serving life in prison.

    Reading further down in the article it also appears the acceptance of the quote "new evidence" was more a matter of luck for the farmer than anything to do with the court believing he wasn't guilty of murder. In other words... He was simply lucky the court accepted this, and reduced the sentence.

    I for one would never consider living in a country with such draconian and utterly backwards laws such as UK's laws regarding self defense.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Guardiann
    Shotgun farmer wins shorter jail term

    * Steven Morris
    * The Guardian, Wednesday 31 October 2001 03.14 GMT
    * Article history

    Tony Martin, the farmer jailed for life for shooting dead a teenage burglar, could be free within a year after his conviction was reduced from murder to manslaughter yesterday.

    Three appeal court judges accepted new evidence that Martin was suffering from a paranoid personality disorder when he opened fire on raiders at his remote Norfolk farmhouse.

    Martin's conviction for murder was quashed and replaced by one of manslaughter on the ground of diminished responsibility.

    His life sentence was reduced to five years, making him eligible for parole in 12 months.

    But the judges said the jury which convicted him was "surely correct" to decide Martin had not acted reasonably when he shot at the burglars. There could be no justification for the farmer taking the law into his own hands.

    The ruling angered friends and neighbours of Martin, who believed he should have been released at once, and the family of the burglar who was killed, 16-year-old Fred Barras, who were shocked that the murder conviction was quashed.

    Martin was pleased that he was no longer branded a murderer but insisted he believed "99%" of people would have acted as he had if faced with the same circumstances.

    His legal team has now asked for leave to take the fight to the House of Lords but Martin is likely to be released before any final judgment.

    Martin, 56, shot dead Barras with an illegally held pump action shotgun and wounded a second man, Brendon Fearon, after they broke into his ramshackle farmhouse in the village of Emneth Hungate, near Wisbech, in August 1999.

    The farmer said that he was terrified and acting in self-defence, claiming his home had been plagued by burglars.

    During his three-day appeal this month, Martin's team claimed that "compelling" new forensic evidence about where he was when he shot Barras added weight to the claim that he acted in self-defence. It also produced new evidence about his mental state, arguing that he was suffering from a paranoid personality disorder and depressive illness.

    The appeal court decided that the fresh forensic evidence would not have affected the jury's verdict but accepted the new psychiatric evidence.

    Lord Woolf, the lord chief justice, said they understood Martin's frustration at the perceived failure of the police.

    But he continued: "Any shortcomings could not justify Mr Martin taking the law into his own hands... We must make it clear that an extremely dangerous weapon cannot be used in the manner which it was used by Mr Martin."

    After the hearing Martin, who sat impassively as the ruling was read, told his solicitor, James Saunders, that he was "disappointed" he could not put his case before another jury.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    That is the country they wanted, and they got what they deserved; People who would trade essential liberties for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety........

    The Gospel according to old Ben Franklin; truer words were never spoken.....
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

  15. #15
    Member Array REDTAIL's Avatar
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    As long as OBAMA is in office we have to worry about our 2nd ammd rights.

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