This is why Everyone should be allowed to Conceal Carry and defend themselves. - Page 3

This is why Everyone should be allowed to Conceal Carry and defend themselves.

This is a discussion on This is why Everyone should be allowed to Conceal Carry and defend themselves. within the Home (And Away From Home) Defense Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by INccwchris guys seriously, knock it off with insulting the guy, thats all i have read in this thread. sorry if i come ...

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Thread: This is why Everyone should be allowed to Conceal Carry and defend themselves.

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    guys seriously, knock it off with insulting the guy, thats all i have read in this thread. sorry if i come off as insulting but thats how its coming across to me. Its a little sad when people start talking about whipping a 12 year old boy and 15 year old girls behind like their enemy combatants. Perhaps this gentleman got hit from behind so hard it made him black out momentarily, perhaps he was so bewildered he did not know what to do. You can't just go around insulting people because they don't have the training you do. Calling someone an idiot because two young thugs jumped him and he took a beating. Please people, we're supposed to be the more upstanding understanding citizens. How about we lay the fault on some of the bystanders for not helping a man in need, instead of judging him for getting whipped. There is always someone out there bigger and stronger than you and if its a 12 year old boy and 15 year old boy, so be it. Not everyone is a hard charging highly trained self-defense guru. I know if I was completely unarmed with no weapon of any kind and I got jumped I would be in trouble. Therefore I always carry some sort of weapon, if its mace/OC spray or a baton, blade, or firearm, I am always armed. There are people out there who do not live their lives in a prepared fashion. They do not train, they do not carry weapons, they do not know self defense strikes. If they feel they are safe, and in most cases they are, that does not make them foolish. Many of you felt safe before you trained and carried. Sorry if I come across as flaming everyone, but it bugs me that instead of being constructive, we went into calling the victim an idiot and a fool.
    Chris,

    While there have been some insults directed at the victim, perhaps they reflect a lack of respect for somone who will not take the personal responsibility or who will make no attempt to be able to defend themself, in a world where such efforts have proven to be prudent.

    The capability of an aggressor, not their age, is a primary factor in determining the manner in which they must be dealt with if one wishes to maintain their physical well being.

    Even for those who for various reasons are not able defend themselves, have found that awareness can substantially reduce their risk of being a victim.

    There is little question that virtually anyone can be beat, but to be honest one must look at who or what it took to beat them.

    A false sense of security is most often foolish.

    There has been some constructive comments re training and awareness.

    To not view the world and people in a realistic fashion, is foolish, whether anyone says so or not.

    Reality is often unkind, such is life.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".


  2. #32
    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    guantes, i think you restated my point, but you did a much better and tactful job of doing so. I just thought it was kind of petty to call this guy a wimp, a pansy or an idiot
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

  3. #33
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Thanks, Chris,

    I make an effort not to ridicule or disparage others, other than the violent criminals of our society, but I will not sacrifice honesty in that endeavor. Oft times, not an easy task.

    I do so for two reasons. One, I like to think of myself as above such behavior. Two, some sort of empathy, as I know that I can get nasty when I am verbally attacked, so I try to not put others in that situation.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post

    To not view the world and people in a realistic fashion, is foolish, whether anyone says so or not.
    I realistically think that guy is a wimp. :)
    I havenít heard any of the journalists who volunteered to be waterboarded asking to have their fingernails wrenched out with pliers, or electrodes attached to their genitals.

  5. #35
    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    hey he did that on purpose ^^^^ :)
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

  6. #36
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    INccwchris: you titled this thread "This is why Everyone should be allowed to Conceal Carry and defend themselves."

    Some other titles occurred to me after watching the video a number of times:

    [1] "This is why simply Carrying Concealed is not enough to defend yourself."
    [2] "This is what happens when you don't have the Mindset to defend yourself__whether you're concealed carrying or not."

    This may not be viewed as constructive comment; but it's my honest appraisal of what I saw in the "victim" . . . and what I think the attackers saw in the victim . . .and I'll bet a cup of coffee that's what you saw in the "victim" too.

    Do you honestly think if this person had a concealed gun he would have defended himself with it???____or would they have have just taken it away from him?
    "It is easier to resist at the beginning than at the end"____Leonardo da Vinci 1452-1519

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3D View Post
    INccwchris: you titled this thread "This is why Everyone should be allowed to Conceal Carry and defend themselves."

    Some other titles occurred to me after watching the video a number of times:

    [1] "This is why simply Carrying Concealed is not enough to defend yourself."
    [2] "This is what happens when you don't have the Mindset to defend yourself__whether you're concealed carrying or not."

    This may not be viewed as constructive comment; but it's my honest appraisal of what I saw in the "victim" . . . and what I think the attackers saw in the victim . . .and I'll bet a cup of coffee that's what you saw in the "victim" too.

    Do you honestly think if this person had a concealed gun he would have defended himself with it???____or would they have have just taken it away from him?
    Hi,
    Chris was not the OP, I was. I can't speak for Chris but I can tell you what I probably would have done. I've always lived in large cities. In Chicago I rode the EL to work. Late at night, it was not unusual to be the only person on the platform waiting for a train. I don't often ride the metro in St. Louis, but it too can be a little spooky at times. There are transit police but they don't seem to be around the platform areas. In DC, Chicago and even in gun friendly Missouri, Concealed or open carry on public trains or buses is illegal.

    It is fairly apparent from reading the article and from seeing and hearing the video that the victim, for whatever reason was not going to defend himself. I have stepped in to break up fights and other times I have been it fights with 3 guys where no one, not even my so called friends stepped in to help me. I don't have much use for gangs or any type of mob action. I'm certain I would have jumped right in to the middle of things.

    After taking the first one I could grab, he would have been curbed by my foot to the back of his head. That usually gets the attention of the others pretty fast. If not, I go on from there. I don't really care too much about the guy who was getting attacked. I just don't like punks.
    If you understand, things are just as they are... If you do not understand, things are just as they are....
    - Zen Saying

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGP250 View Post
    Hi,
    Chris was not the OP, I was. I can't speak for Chris but I can tell you what I probably would have done. I've always lived in large cities. In Chicago I rode the EL to work. Late at night, it was not unusual to be the only person on the platform waiting for a train. I don't often ride the metro in St. Louis, but it too can be a little spooky at times. There are transit police but they don't seem to be around the platform areas. In DC, Chicago and even in gun friendly Missouri, Concealed or open carry on public trains or buses is illegal.

    It is fairly apparent from reading the article and from seeing and hearing the video that the victim, for whatever reason was not going to defend himself. I have stepped in to break up fights and other times I have been it fights with 3 guys where no one, not even my so called friends stepped in to help me. I don't have much use for gangs or any type of mob action. I'm certain I would have jumped right in to the middle of things.

    After taking the first one I could grab, he would have been curbed by my foot to the back of his head. That usually gets the attention of the others pretty fast. If not, I go on from there. I don't really care too much about the guy who was getting attacked. I just don't like punks.
    Would something like an ASP be legal to carry on a train?
    I havenít heard any of the journalists who volunteered to be waterboarded asking to have their fingernails wrenched out with pliers, or electrodes attached to their genitals.

  9. #39
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I don't know of anywhere that a roll of quarters, for phone and vending machine use, is illegal. I try to always have at least one when I fly.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    Would something like an ASP be legal to carry on a train?
    A folding baton is legal, most of the time. A few states require training. State & Local laws will govern. A base ball bat is definitely legal on a train or bus if there is any doubt.

    For those who may not be familiar, ASP is a manufacture of law enforcement equipment.
    If you understand, things are just as they are... If you do not understand, things are just as they are....
    - Zen Saying

  11. #41
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I think I would also carry at least a ball and possible a glove, just to cover my butt.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  12. #42
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    As others on this thread have said it does not really matter what you carry if you do not have the mindset to do violence to those who are doing violence to you then you are just another victim of your own self denial that it can't happen to me and if it does there will be someone there to help bail me out.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

    http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

  13. #43
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    Im sorry folks, but to me the only difference in a 21 year old thug and a 15 year old thug is 6 years. I do believe I would have gutted them and walked over to chick fillet for a sandwich and coke. I know that is not considered the right thing to do, but things like that have a high chance of happening when I am physically attacked. No matter what happened, I would have definetly left an impact in the minds of the other aspiring thugs, one they would remember for the rest of there lives.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    I don't know of anywhere that a roll of quarters, for phone and vending machine use, is illegal. I try to always have at least one when I fly.
    Yes, I have mentioned the use of thin leather driving gloves and a roll of coins. I prefer a roll of nickles. In a tight gloved fist, nickles can be grasped firmly and conceal nicely in your palm.

    It is important to develop a full swing upper cut to the chin or an overhead round house to the side of the head for this technique to be most effective. Your striking power can be increased at least two fold. This is partly due to the roll of coins and partly from the glove. Your fist is literally transformed into a club. Your knuckles simply will not give upon striking thus allowing for additional strikes if needed without much, if any pain to your own fist.
    If you understand, things are just as they are... If you do not understand, things are just as they are....
    - Zen Saying

  15. #45
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Actually I prefer my sap gloves, but in a pinch the roll of coins will do.

    There are a number of techniques that work quite well in addition to those you mentioned. A hammer fist or a closed fist ridge hand. Even a slap will work, holding the roll between the thumb and pinky in the palm, although you may pop the roll.

    As I mentioned in my original post, my inclination would be to spread some pain.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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