I just finished a week long family reunion in Utah. As a back ground we had family from Idaho, Utah, Colorado and Washington State. Usual campground scenario, folks sitting around kids running and playing, I start at day #2. Son in law carries concealed 24/7. He was building holsters for his guns and had several of his handguns on the picnic table the entire time but kept them in a bag. The guns were NEVER unattended so safety was never an issue. Most thought the bag contained only his leather working tools. Someting was said about using a handgun for self defense. The wifes brother said I would never shoot someone for fear that those actions would endanger my chances at heaven ( or words to that effect) I said well what if someone was threatening your life? His reply was I will stay out of those spots. I just won't go to where that would happen. I could not believe my ears and my blood pressure must have been off the chart. I was dumbfounded to say the least. Then his son piped up ( who is a 911 dispatcher) and said what if those "spots" come to you? No reply. Then the brothers wife piped up and said that's why I would never allow a gun in my house. So I said you would never fire a gun to save your own life? Her reply was I would rather be killed than take anothers life. OK so at this point I realize that nothing will be gained by further conversation. I must admit that I spent hours trying to understand that kind of thinking. My conclusion is that A) you consider yourself some type of martyr or B) you have never really even considered that you could be involved in a violent act through no fault of your own. I beileve that at least she and possibly many others actually believe that no violent action could ever occur in their lives. I truly hope she is right. Day #3 more folks arrive including this guys uncles who are a generation older. I said nothing to anyone about yesterday's conversation. Guns for self defense came up again ( not me) and the older uncles went on and on about events that had occurred at their next door neighbors and how a gun in hand would have made them safer and that if this bad guy came through their door they would have shot him on the spot. I was biting my tongue the entire time and said nothing. Wifes brother heard every word but said nothing. The point of this story? Logic and reality have little to do with ones personal beliefs. As a side note I went home and looked up the scriptural guidance regarding self defense, lets just say that what the law considers legal self defense fits right in with what our relgions scriptures say. There are none so ignorant as those who will not learn.