Extreme sheep, another family reunion story

[Timezoneguy]

I just finished a week long family reunion in Utah. As a back ground we had family from Idaho, Utah, Colorado and Washington State. Usual campground scenario, folks sitting around kids running and playing, I start at day #2. Son in law carries concealed 24/7. He was building holsters for his guns and had several of his handguns on the picnic table the entire time but kept them in a bag. The guns were NEVER unattended so safety was never an issue. Most thought the bag contained only his leather working tools. Someting was said about using a handgun for self defense. The wifes brother said I would never shoot someone for fear that those actions would endanger my chances at heaven ( or words to that effect) I said well what if someone was threatening your life? His reply was I will stay out of those spots. I just won't go to where that would happen. I could not believe my ears and my blood pressure must have been off the chart. I was dumbfounded to say the least. Then his son piped up ( who is a 911 dispatcher) and said what if those "spots" come to you? No reply. Then the brothers wife piped up and said that's why I would never allow a gun in my house. So I said you would never fire a gun to save your own life? Her reply was I would rather be killed than take anothers life. OK so at this point I realize that nothing will be gained by further conversation. I must admit that I spent hours trying to understand that kind of thinking. My conclusion is that A) you consider yourself some type of martyr or B) you have never really even considered that you could be involved in a violent act through no fault of your own. I beileve that at least she and possibly many others actually believe that no violent action could ever occur in their lives. I truly hope she is right. Day #3 more folks arrive including this guys uncles who are a generation older. I said nothing to anyone about yesterday's conversation. Guns for self defense came up again ( not me) and the older uncles went on and on about events that had occurred at their next door neighbors and how a gun in hand would have made them safer and that if this bad guy came through their door they would have shot him on the spot. I was biting my tongue the entire time and said nothing. Wifes brother heard every word but said nothing. The point of this story? Logic and reality have little to do with ones personal beliefs. As a side note I went home and looked up the scriptural guidance regarding self defense, lets just say that what the law considers legal self defense fits right in with what our relgions scriptures say. There are none so ignorant as those who will not learn.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[claude clay]

Logic and reality have little to do with ones personal beliefs

thats it. 2+2=5
we are all winners--no, we do not keep score cause than that would mean ther are losers.
we are all special--no, nothing you have to do; just being you is enough.

you can not fight stupid. most children by 3rd grade come to understand this.
well, i said most, not all--cause some never do and unfortunately they do not all move to California.

chose your battles and sometimes it pays to sit back and observe...

[SgtTanner]

On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs

Take a read of "On Killing" as well. The psychology behind it is more than I can put into words here. Lt. Col. Dave Grossman has done a ton of research that everyone here would benefit from.

[Timezoneguy]

I have read "On killing". A good read to help one understand how some others think.

[ppkheat]

I've known some people like that, in fact one is a very good friend of mine. I haven't read "On killing" and I probably should do so, however I've thought about those people and I'm guessing that they have a very personal distaste for the idea of defending themselves, so powerful that they think they can avoid any situation. Also, I wonder if "living with the stigma" of defending theirselves affects them also.

There are all kinds of people.

[gruntingfrog]

I have a feeling that most people who state they would rather die than kill someone in self-defense have never been in any sort of violent encounter (outside the schoolyard, maybe). People change their tunes pretty quickly when it becomes real to them. Unfortunately, many people never get a chance to change their minds on this because they don't make it past that first encounter.

[jem102]

It's beyond understanding most of the time. These are good folks usually but they psychobabble them selves into a corner and get short with you when you use a logical approach...I think the Bible is pretty clear on what God's people did when attached or when dealing with criminals including young thugs...
It gets to the point you just say to yourself; "Some will, some won't, so what...next" and move on hoping they change their Hoplophobic views before something wicked and tragic comes their way.

[RKM]

If somebody would rather be killed than defend themselves, good for them. But, I'd rather kill then be killed.

[BugDude]

Self defense is a personal decision...not all will decide the same things or ways. Freedom to decide, or not, works that way.

[tcox4freedom]

Just wondering- Do these two people have any children?

I have run across several people who say they would not take a life to save their own. But, there has be very few that I've met who said they would not take a life to protect their children.

When a persons falls into this catagory I acknowledge their love for their child & williness to protect them at all costs. Then, I ask them if they think staying alive to protect their children is something that makes sense to them.

Taking this approach usually opens up the door for more education; and I used it to help convert many AGers into believers.

[OldVet]

Some people are simply convinced that it will never happen to them . . . until it does. Then they face the consequences of their beliefs.

[JDE101]

I just got back from a family reunion where I saw cousins that I haven't seen in 20 years and some other relatives I haven't seen at all, or at least not since they were babies 50 years ago. I was carrying concealed the whole time, and the conversation concerning guns and self defence never came up. However, given the background of the people and the fact that I have been hunting with a couple of the cousins in the past on our great-great grandfather's farm, I would be willing to bet that I wasn't the only one carrying concealed, and I would bet that everyone there, man, woman, and child would be willling to shoot someone in self defence or in defence of a loved one. NO sheep in my family!

[joker1]

You'd be surprised how many hunters and seemingly gun guys are against concealed carry, handguns, and the NRA. They somehow believe they are always the hunter and never the hunted. I like to think not but I've run across a few.

[Hiram25]

I have no desire to use my weapon on another human being, that said, I do all I can to avoid such a situation, however, should they bring the situation to me, that's their fault, not mine!

[SFury]

You'd be surprised how many hunters and seemingly gun guys are against concealed carry, handguns, and the NRA. They somehow believe they are always the hunter and never the hunted. I like to think not but I've run across a few.

There are still quite a few people in my region that think like this. Which I can't understand. It was not that long ago that the one Hmong hunter went psycho during our gun deer season and killed six people, and wounded two others near Rice Lake.

That could happen at any time, any place, for who knows what reason. You never know what other people are going through, and you don't know what could set them off.