This is a discussion on Turned out to be nothing, but drew entering my house after getting a call. within the Home (And Away From Home) Defense Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Guantes Thanks. The circumstances were the result of being a cop. It's a shame that trying to make a difference in a ...
I'm not trying to rag on you, just possibly give you a perspective to consider.
I agree that we have to use common sense & that every situation may not call for you dialing 911 everytime something goes bump in the night. The truth of the matter is if you did call everytime the least little thing happened, they wouldn't take you seriously when something was really happening and you really needed them.
I wasn't there to assess the driving so I'm trusting your discretion on this one. I'm also sure, however, that you're well aware of what would've happened if you were pulled over in that circumstance. If you were pulled over for driving in a manner that may not have been legal, for example, I doubt that LEO would be very forgiving with your explanation; your speeding home to investigate a possible break in. They would probably want to know why you didn't call the police.
This leads to what would've happened if someone was in the house. Did you stop to think what you would tell police if you had to shoot someone in your house? In that situation, they would also ask, why didn't you call them? I'm just trying to consider different scenarios here. If something had happened, a lawyer could possibly paint you as being irresponsible by going in to clear a house with no formal training and then throw an additional charge of negligence per you not calling police. I'm sure they would say that if there was enough of a threat for you to enter your house with your gun drawn, it was enough of a threat to call the police.
I can't remember which thread it was on but someone at sometime said that if you think there is enough of a threat to draw your gun then its enough of a threat to call 911. To me, this sounds like good logic. I realize we have to protect ourselves as well as our property (when appropriate) but we aslo have to protect ourselves legally. Unfortunately its the lawyers that gets us instead of the BGs. In the end, we wind up being the victim in spite of our efforts to protect ourselves and property from BGs. This situation has given you a lot of things to consider so if anything like this happens again in the future (I hope it doesn't) then perhaps you'll be better prepared to handle the multitude of potential problems that bad situations contain.
I'm glad all worked out well for you.
Grace & Peace,
Same here. It's really a judgement call, and it has to factor in a whole bunch of things that are hard to quantify, but in the aggregate if you want to clear your house and are comfortable doing that, and you perceive the threat picture to be low, then clear the house. It's partly why we arm and train - so we can protect our property.I don't have a huge problem with clearing your own home in a low risk situation like this, however, at least do it somewhat cautious and methodically. LEO can't and shouldn't be called every time the wind blows, some degree of self sufficiency is a good thing.
In discussions like this, sometimes I try to imagine what a person back in, say, the 1920s would have thought about a person today who calls the cops because they saw a shadow and I think our ancestors would judge us collectively as a bunch of pants-wetting pansies.
On the other hand, pros who practice house clearing, like with airsoft scenarios and the like, report that the solo clearing guy usually gets nailed. The collective wisdom on this is that you probably do want to call in backup if you are pretty sure that there is indeed a serious threat to deal with.
"It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."
I'm thinking that there's a threat even if he's the victor in clearing out his own house where he has to shoot a BG to protect himself and his property; most notably the BGs or State's lawyer that will come after him if he didn't cross every "T" and dot every "i" in the actions that lead up to him shooting said BG.
Last edited by SIXTO; July 13th, 2011 at 09:34 PM. Reason: use multi quotes
I realize we have to take this stuff with a grain of salt b/c if we become too scared to act, then we might as well not even carry.
I'm glad you are able to post this account.
I'm sad that you don't realize how easy it could have been your sister posting on a support site about seeing her older brother killed in an armed home burglary gone bad.
As said earlier, if it warranted you drawing a firearm, it warranted calling 911 and waiting. With no immediate threat to life what's the rush?
Being prepared for the worst is perfectly O.K.
Now, that is very different from actually going in with full knowledge that someone is in there, or that it is highly likely that someone is in there. That is just plain foolish unless it is your job.
"Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war."
John Adams. Second President of the United States.
It wasn't a "there's someone there who I'm going to have to shoot, better draw my weapon" situation at all. It was just being prepared.
I generally agree that you should call 911 if the situation warrants drawing your weapon...I just think this situation was a little different. A little less serious, but having a chambered firearm in my hands definitely eased my nerves a bit...
Kind of Blue - Miles Davis (1959). If you haven't heard it, go listen!
I'm also thinking that something that is different about this situation is that you didn't start out in your house and were forced to defend it, you started outside of the house and had to enter in under the belief that there could be a threat. It's not a typical home defense situation.
Gee, I just go room to room, send in my dogs... and tell them the word for "find them"..... watch and wait.
They can and will search a room more thoroughly than I could. One in particular is trained to find people, so that helps.
Good to be cautious , if in doubt.
I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."
Being that I have 2 Labs (& 2 cats, 2 birds), not seeing any obvious signs of B&E would lead me to first find out if the dogs are still in the house. That can be achieved by knocking on the front window...wild barking & a whiskered muzzle or two heading for the window would be a good sign. I'd likely attempt to clear the house myself at that point.
I'd reeeally hate for an officer to shoot my dogs!
To any of the LEO's/former LEO's in the room - do you feel that a responding LEO would feel it prudent to somehow let me get my dogs out of the house before they start clearing it? The dogs would not take kindly to a stranger stomping through the house!
"Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)