Defense scenario. legal or not legal? - Page 2

Defense scenario. legal or not legal?

This is a discussion on Defense scenario. legal or not legal? within the Home (And Away From Home) Defense Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; If he got kicked out, chances are he isnt the one you want to ask for advice...

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Thread: Defense scenario. legal or not legal?

  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    If he got kicked out, chances are he isnt the one you want to ask for advice
    mr.stuart and Erick46590 like this.
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  2. #17
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    The guy you work with is an idiot. Never argue with idiots.
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  3. #18
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Well it is in a way...... if he's got a knife out and charging you .... you are already at a bad disadvantage. The odds are more on his side.

    Your friend, is an idiot, .... tell him he needs to keep taking more classes, talk to a few LEO's and attorneys, and get up to speed with the laws. Then , take him to some knife demonstrations if he doesn't think a knife is deadly.

    He's caught up in Hollywood, the guy always gets stabs & cut up but survives, but if he's shot he's instantly dead unless he's the hero of the movie. Needs to get in touch with reality.

    Example California.... a woman is grabbed by a guy who's been waiting for her.... she struggles, so he gets ahold of her from behind and slices her throat with a pocket knife. He does it with such force, she is nearly totally decapitated with only a small area of spine holding her head on.
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  4. #19
    Member Array Billspider's Avatar
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    I retired from a company that used a memo that we called an A.O.I. which is an acronym for Avoid Oral Instructions. I use that acronym for the use of deadly force. Before you can legally use deadly force against another three things must be present, that person must have the:
    1. (Ability) to inflict grave bodily harm or death upon you.
    2.(Opportunity) to inflict grave bodily harm or death
    3.( Intent) to inflict grave bodily harm or death.
    All three must be present before you can use deadly force as a defense
    Anytime I have a question about self-defense I run this acronym if all three are present then deadly force could be legally used.

  5. #20
    Senior Member Array stevem174's Avatar
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    I have a question for your friend.

    If someone attacks with me a .22 can I use a .40?
    Erick46590 likes this.
    Don't do things you don't want to explain to the Paramedics!

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  6. #21
    Member Array Fenris's Avatar
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    Your friend is right there is a force continuum or ladder of force or whatever you want to call it. What was probably covered in the class after he was kicked out is that all deadly force occupies the same level. If you are attacked with non-deadly force, you can not respond with deadly force.

    For example, you can't shoot someone for throwing a water balloon even if it annoys you. But if that balloon had gasoline and now he's coming at you with a match, then you can shoot.... well that might not work out well flammability wise, use a sword or a knife.

    A deadly threat justifies a deadly response. Nothing else does. OK. Except rape, severe bodily injury, kidnapping, arson, and a couple other things. But other than those, nothing else.

  7. #22
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    Florida law doesn't include firearms in the statutory definition of "weapons" and it only fits that definition if "used" as one. So if he draws a weapon (as defined by state statute) I'll reply in kind with my firearm and "use" it as a weapon in return. That puts us back on even ground--as far as the law is concerned.
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  8. #23
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    He recognizes that a knife is a deadly weapon because he has also explained something about a "16 foot rule". He said if they're within 16ft and charging you, you probably won't be able to unholster and fire before they are too close, he said to go for a knife instead. That being said, I still don't understand why he thinks it would be illegal for me to use a gun (deadly weapon) on someone who is trying to stab me with a knife (deadly weapon). ??
    Matthew 10:28 "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell." ✞

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erick46590 View Post
    He recognizes that a knife is a deadly weapon because he has also explained something about a "16 foot rule". He said if they're within 16ft and charging you, you probably won't be able to unholster and fire before they are too close, he said to go for a knife instead. That being said, I still don't understand why he thinks it would be illegal for me to use a gun (deadly weapon) on someone who is trying to stab me with a knife (deadly weapon). ??
    Again, he is proving himself to be a dolt. Its the 21ft rule, not 16... and it has nothing to do with legal issues.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  10. #25
    Senior Member Array stevem174's Avatar
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    I am pretty sure he is talking about the "21 foot rule."

    To me, it sounds like he is talking about legal responses and tactics without a solid foundation of either.

    Maybe he lives by the motto "never let facts get in the way of a good story"
    Don't do things you don't want to explain to the Paramedics!

    Stupidity should be painful.

  11. #26
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    VIP Member Array sgb's Avatar
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    guy with knife me
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  12. #27
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    OP, you REALLY need to get smarter friends! I try to give people the benefit of a doubt but he has proven himself
    to be a complete idiot. I can't think of ANY reason to pull a knife against a deadly force threat when I have a gun.
    A self-defense knife is an absolute last ditch weapon. He obviously knows absolutely nothing about either guns or
    knives. I can present and fire my gun from a concealed holster easily twice as fast as I can pull out my SD knife
    clipped in my front pocket. You use deadly force to defend yourself against ANY other form of deadly force or
    serious bodily injury. Deadly force is deadly force, it doesn't matter what it looks like. To defend yourself you start
    with the most deadly force weapon you have access to. Rifle first, then shotgun, handgun, knife, bats, chair, etc,
    in that order. That includes for 'serious bodily injury'. If five guys approach you without any weapons and you are in
    fear of your life or 'serious bodily injury' ie. getting the sh*t kicked out of you, you have the right to use whatever
    force you have access to to stop that from occurring. Five against one is deadly force. Hell, two against one is
    deadly force against you. If he still can't grasp this concept you seriously need to hang out with more intelligent
    friends. This guy will get you killed or at the very least he won't have your back. And that's not much of a friend
    in my book.

  13. #28
    Distinguished Member Array CIBMike's Avatar
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    Tell him he is free to turn his back on the attacker and flee for his knife.If he is slower than his attacker he will get a free knife and if his arms are long enough he will be all set.
    The easy way is always mined.

  14. #29
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    In Texas we shoot them in the back running away because you can't tell if he is not going to circle the house and come back.
    And yes is Texas you can shoot a fleeing felon in the back and someone the has a knife and threatens to use it is a felony

  15. #30
    Member Array lordofwyr's Avatar
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    I once took Knife Defense for LE from a friend who, after being seriously injured during a traffic stop by a guy with a knife, decided to learn all there was to know about edged weapons. His advice: If they are within 21 feet, knife drawn and charging at you (not likely to happen) and your gun is not already in your hand, run directly at them, dodge as well as you can and double arm block them left or right as you run past them, pushing them aside as you continue running past them. Their momentum will carry them on behind you and you can gain time and distance. You should then draw, turn and shoot.

    The reason he taught this was that if you stand there to draw, they will be on you stabbing you before you clear leather. If you try to back up (instinctive reaction) you will trip, and they will be on you. Charging them aggressively will throw their thought processes off, hopefully buying you the advantage of time and distance.

    In any event, the odds of being charged by someone with a knife are extremely low. Knife fights are usually sudden (but with plenty of warning signs), close quarters, unexpected, violent and deadly.

    Rule # 1. Avoid this situation if at all possible by keeping distance from a threat, and don't get caught in a mental condition where a threat is gathering and you never see it coming because you are in condition white when you should have been in yellow or red.
    Fortune Favors the Bold!

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