Defense scenario. legal or not legal?

This is a discussion on Defense scenario. legal or not legal? within the Home (And Away From Home) Defense Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; - I once saw a movie where a guy pulled a knife on someone. The victim said, "Knife? That's not a knife. This is a ...

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Thread: Defense scenario. legal or not legal?

  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    I once saw a movie where a guy pulled a knife on someone. The victim said, "Knife? That's not a knife. This is a knife!"

    Now I wear a hat, a leather vest, & carry a really big knife...just in case.



    Friends are funny sometimes, no?
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordofwyr View Post
    I once took Knife Defense for LE from a friend who, after being seriously injured during a traffic stop by a guy with a knife, decided to learn all there was to know about edged weapons. His advice: If they are within 21 feet, knife drawn and charging at you (not likely to happen) and your gun is not already in your hand, run directly at them, dodge as well as you can and double arm block them left or right as you run past them, pushing them aside as you continue running past them. Their momentum will carry them on behind you and you can gain time and distance. You should then draw, turn and shoot.

    The reason he taught this was that if you stand there to draw, they will be on you stabbing you before you clear leather. If you try to back up (instinctive reaction) you will trip, and they will be on you. Charging them aggressively will throw their thought processes off, hopefully buying you the advantage of time and distance.

    In any event, the odds of being charged by someone with a knife are extremely low. Knife fights are usually sudden (but with plenty of warning signs), close quarters, unexpected, violent and deadly.

    Rule # 1. Avoid this situation if at all possible by keeping distance from a threat, and don't get caught in a mental condition where a threat is gathering and you never see it coming because you are in condition white when you should have been in yellow or red.
    It's counter-intuitive to want to close distance with someone attacking you, but it is often the best tactically sound thing to do, whether they have a knife or other weapon. It also takes gut's to close with the attacker, but again, often the best way to counter their attack.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
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  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordofwyr View Post
    I once took Knife Defense for LE from a friend who, after being seriously injured during a traffic stop by a guy with a knife, decided to learn all there was to know about edged weapons. His advice: If they are within 21 feet, knife drawn and charging at you (not likely to happen) and your gun is not already in your hand, run directly at them, dodge as well as you can and double arm block them left or right as you run past them, pushing them aside as you continue running past them. Their momentum will carry them on behind you and you can gain time and distance. You should then draw, turn and shoot.

    The reason he taught this was that if you stand there to draw, they will be on you stabbing you before you clear leather. If you try to back up (instinctive reaction) you will trip, and they will be on you. Charging them aggressively will throw their thought processes off, hopefully buying you the advantage of time and distance.

    In any event, the odds of being charged by someone with a knife are extremely low. Knife fights are usually sudden (but with plenty of warning signs), close quarters, unexpected, violent and deadly.

    Rule # 1. Avoid this situation if at all possible by keeping distance from a threat, and don't get caught in a mental condition where a threat is gathering and you never see it coming because you are in condition white when you should have been in yellow or red.

    Charging an assailant would definitely mess with his head but you better be DAMN good in hand to hand and weapon disarming. Remember
    you're unarmed and he has a knife or gun. Proper response is to move obliquely away from the attack. Yes there is always a risk of tripping
    but if you practice the movement, backing away at an angle and shooting, you can certainly greatly minimize the risk. Plus you should be
    aware of your surrounding and know where you can escape/evade to. Your number one goal is to put as much distance between you and the
    attacker. You also don't have to have a full firing stance to shoot the gun. Up close you can draw the weapon to a close contact position, gun at
    your side with your hand/grip on your ribs with the gun slightly canted outwards to clear the slide from your body. Sort of like shooting from
    the hip but higher with the gun referenced against your body. At three yards and less you can insure COM hits with practice. This also allows
    you to defend or distract with your support hand. Often a quick movement like a flick or jab to the face will make the attacker flinch or
    hesitate for just a split second. That's all you need to draw and fire from the close contact position. Your #1 rule is exactly right. You should
    have ideally moved through the color conditions before this and avoided the confrontation completely.

  6. #35
    Member Array lordofwyr's Avatar
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    At the beginning of the Knife Course, he told us, "If you get into a knife fight, you are GOING to get cut. All you can do is try to minimize that until you shoot them." That was why he advised blocking and running past and NOT grappling with an attacker with a knife. Backing up cannot be done as fast as running forward and you cannot see what is behind you. Anyway, if this happens it is going to be down and dirty.

    I have no problem doing my best to avoid the scenario entirely by not getting there in the first place. Avoidance is better all the way around. I also fight dirty and cheat every chance I get if face bad encounters. If you end up in a deadly force situation it pays to bushwhack, surprise, or run away if possible and live through it. (Running is not an option if protecting family or others lives though)
    Fortune Favors the Bold!

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordofwyr View Post
    At the beginning of the Knife Course, he told us, "If you get into a knife fight, you are GOING to get cut. All you can do is try to minimize that until you shoot them." That was why he advised blocking and running past and NOT grappling with an attacker with a knife. Backing up cannot be done as fast as running forward and you cannot see what is behind you. Anyway, if this happens it is going to be down and dirty.

    I have no problem doing my best to avoid the scenario entirely by not getting there in the first place. Avoidance is better all the way around. I also fight dirty and cheat every chance I get if face bad encounters. If you end up in a deadly force situation it pays to bushwhack, surprise, or run away if possible and live through it. (Running is not an option if protecting family or others lives though)
    I agree, if you get in a knife fight you will most likely get cut. In a knife fight, the winner is the one who gets cut the least. That's why I have a
    problem with closing with the guy. Unless your block is totally perfect, you WILL get cut or stabbed. Retreat at an angle or even at 90 deg I think
    would be better. It only takes a moment to present to the close contact position while defending with the support hand. Grappling is definitely
    not an option, I agree. Tripping and falling is also a possibility. All you can do is train at backing and present/fire. But that's also why I practice
    presenting and firing off my back.

    Cheating isn't 'cheating' in a fight. It's fighting smart!
    Erick46590 likes this.

  8. #37
    New Member Array sootsme's Avatar
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    Use of lethal force...

    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Your friend has his head stuck up his backside. It is not a "disproportionate response" in the least, even if it was, you can take it to the next level in any use of force continuum that I've ever seen.... and Joe Citizen typically is not bound by that anyway.

    He is right about not shooting as the attacker flees, but, if a reasonable person would fear that another person is in immediate danger from the fleeing attacker, you might be justified in shooting.
    Over the last 20 years or so in WA state, I am aware of two cases where intruders were shot and killed by a resident while in the act of retreating, and not prosecuted. I would not advise this course of action, but especially in a breeding ground of liberalism, interesting nonetheless...

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