Road Rage Scenario thoughts

This is a discussion on Road Rage Scenario thoughts within the Home (And Away From Home) Defense Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I actually had a very similar situation on the PA Turnpike a few years back Northbound 476 around Allentown for those that know the area. ...

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  1. #16
    Member Array RockStrongo's Avatar
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    I actually had a very similar situation on the PA Turnpike a few years back Northbound 476 around Allentown for those that know the area. Long story short.. I am driving in the right lane and the "Rager" was weaving in and out of traffic, tailgated me, then passed. I admittedly looked at him as he passed with one of those "*** is your hurry" looks, but in no way gestured or even mouthed a word. He began swerving toward me, and luckily enough there was enough shoulder that i was able to avoid and brake keeping him in front of me. If he would have persued me or try to stop traffic, I may have had to my pistol, but thankfully he Raged on down the highway and I dropped back to let him do his thing. I got the plate, called 911 and let him go on his way. I wasn't the only one he was doing this too either, so I am sure I was not the only one that called 911 that day on him. I still remember his plate too.. because it was a personalized plate on a large F250 size truck. Anyway, I don't know what ever happened with it, because i never heard back from the state police.

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  3. #17
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    A friend of mine was arrested, charged and convicted in Muskingum County, Ohio after showing his rappie in a road rage incident that he was armed and ready to fight at 70 mph several years ago.
    He probably didn't contact the authorities before the BG did.

    Like I said this happened a long time ago way out west in a very rural area.

    Stopping to fight while you can still go to a safer location is not a good idea. Only stop if you're forced to stop. Then as Bark'n said get out of your vehicle so you can maneuver & fight from behind some type of cover.

    If it happened today 911 on the cell is my first step. Slowing down & seeking the most populated area I can find while waiting for LEOs is my next step. (Hopefully, I could find a busy parking lot to circle around in until they arrived.)

    Stopping & fighting is the absolute last resort!

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  4. #18
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    Call the Highway Patrol/911 immediately.
    If his car is that much smaller and lighter, doesn't seem like you're in that much physical danger. Change lanes, if possible. If not possible, slow down so that if there is an accident, it won't be at 60 MPH.

    Definitely do NOT take the shot. No matter what state you are in, that is a bad, bad idea.
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  5. #19
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    Knowing what I know about my wife, after the b.g. brake checks her, makes contact with her, somebody better call 911, for him. She would definitely feed him a fender and put him in a ditch.
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  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    He probably didn't contact the authorities before the BG did.

    Like I said this happened a long time ago way out west in a very rural area.

    Stopping to fight while you can still go to a safer location is not a good idea. Only stop if you're forced to stop. Then as Bark'n said get out of your vehicle so you can maneuver & fight from behind some type of cover.

    If it happened today 911 on the cell is my first step. Slowing down & seeking the most populated area I can find while waiting for LEOs is my next step. (Hopefully, I could find a busy parking lot to circle around in until they arrived.)

    Stopping & fighting is the absolute last resort!
    I just want to clarify a couple points from my first post #12 above, (which may have led to some confusion).

    It's always best to stay in the car and use your vehicle to maximum advantage for as long as possible!

    When I started out my post saying "Stop, stop, stop"... I was referring to Do Not engage in a rolling gunfight while driving down the road. That is almost never a good idea!

    Also, if someone is deliberately attempting to run you off the road it's best to just stop right there and deal with the situation.

    You don't want to be running down the road at highway speeds playing bumper tag with an idiot. The risk for a deadly and fiery car crash is too great.

    If someone is deliberately trying to run you off the road, I don't care who you are, the average driver is going to be scared to death and likely close to panicking. Your instinct is to try to get away, but unless you've had an extensive amount of pursuit driving skills and professional training, you're more likely to end in a horrible crash.

    Playing bumper tag while driving at highway speeds is a deadly proposition. Fight the urge to try and get away and just stop your vehicle and then assess the situation.

    Again, when it gets to that point... You can't be sitting there thinking "This isn't happening, this isn't happening!" It is happening! And you're going to have to stop and deal with it. Running down the road and having a "rolling gun battle" is the worst way of dealing with it, and so is trying to play "bumper tag" unless you're a professional Hollywood stunt driver, or been through professional driving school.

    Use your car to it's maximum advantage. Once you've stopped, depending on what the other driver does, you may still be able to drive off and get away. But also, once stopped, you are going to have to decide if you are going to stay inside the car until the bitter end (knowing your trapped inside a confined space aka bullet trap) or get out of the car where you can maneuver and fight.

    If a situation with a road rage driver ever develops into a situation like this, it's not going to be a fun situation. You are going to have to suck it up and deal with it. There are not a lot of great options which are going to guarantee you a great outcome, but there are definitely things which will more than likely be disastrous, like playing bumper tag and shooting from a moving vehicle.

    Always call 911 at your earliest opportunity.

    But not everyone has a cell phone, and you can't always guarantee you'll have a cell coverage at your particular location on the road. You don't want to be distracted and on the phone when you need to be doing something else like concentrating on your driving skills or engaging a madman with a gun. If you've stopped and a man with a gun is approaching your vehicle, sitting inside your car trying to get 911 on the cell phone isn't going to save you. Deal with the threat, and then call 911.
    Last edited by Bark'n; January 22nd, 2012 at 01:55 AM. Reason: correcting typos
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    -Bark'n
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  7. #21
    Senior Member Array Fragman's Avatar
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    Call it in and disengage. If that means slowing, stopping, heading to a safe area, exiting the freeway or whatever, then do it. In effect do what you would do if you were not armed. In this particular scenario, you are in no particular danger, but by allowing encounter to continue, you risk making the other driver lose control of their smaller lighter vehicle and wrecking with an uninvolved third party. Being armed is not a factor other than an even more pressing reason to disengage.
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  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fragman View Post
    Call it in and disengage. If that means slowing, stopping, heading to a safe area, exiting the freeway or whatever, then do it. In effect do what you would do if you were not armed. In this particular scenario, you are in no particular danger, but by allowing encounter to continue, you risk making the other driver lose control of their smaller lighter vehicle and wrecking with an uninvolved third party. Being armed is not a factor other than an even more pressing reason to disengage.
    I agree 100%, and as you said, "slowing, stopping, heading to a safe area, exiting the freeway" will solve most road rage scenarios.

    The advice in my posts are directed towards incidents with real whack-job road ragers who just don't let it go. Those who push the confrontation or deliberately try to run you off the road. Those who want a physical fight and/or really want to kill you for encroaching on "their space." All in all, a very, very low percentage of incidents no doubt, but they're out there none the less.

    Almost always, if you're the one who backs down, backs away and give them a wide berth, do not provoke, is usually all it takes to resolve the situation.
    tcox4freedom, l1a1 and DC like this.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  9. #23
    Member Array l1a1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuckoo429 View Post
    First, I don't care how clear the shot was, or how great of a shooter I am, I would NEVER shoot from a moving vehicle into another vehicle (unless I was in immediate danger of dying). I would pull over (while calling 911 with a complete description and license #), see if the maggot had the ballz to pull over with me. If the attack escalated, then I would take the necessary steps (ask them, tell them, take action all while my Glock is pointed at their center mass).
    This is basically how the "hypothetical" situation played out. Gun in hand but not displayed, brandished or pointed. Pulled over onto the shoulder and the other guy appeared to be doing the same. Wasn't but a second when the gentleman fled the scene. There was no screaming from the wife during the incident. 911 rang through with no answer. Wife foolishly gave chase against all better judgement at triple digit speeds. Thankfully the guy had a faster, better handling car and was able to evade. It was just about everything that I had to get my better half to call off the chase. I was worried about possibly having to use deadly force and I'm convinced that my wife was going to do the deed herself with the truck. You know what they say about a woman scorned right? We came across a State Patrolman a couple towns later and made a report, gave a vehicle description and plate number. Plate came back to a different make of car so I imagine it was stolen. Overall I thought it was handled about as well as could be expected up until the high speed pursuit.

    One thing I forgot to put in the story was that my wife was 5 months and very visibly pregnant at the time. :)

  10. #24
    Member Array l1a1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    I agree 100%, and as you said, "slowing, stopping, heading to a safe area, exiting the freeway" will solve most road rage scenarios.

    The advice in my posts are directed towards incidents with real whack-job road ragers who just don't let it go. Those who push the confrontation or deliberately try to run you off the road. Those who want a physical fight and/or really want to kill you for encroaching on "their space." All in all, a very, very low percentage of incidents no doubt, but they're out there none the less.

    Almost always, if you're the one who backs down, backs away and give them a wide berth, do not provoke, is usually all it takes to resolve the situation.
    This definitely fits the description of a whack job road rager that was actively attempting to run us off the road. There was deliberate and continued vehicular contact. The passenger side tire of the truck was in contact with the other car for the duration of the incident. There was a lot of crunching, squealing, tiresmoke and grinding as well. When the car passed, every body panel was dented in and had a series of black tire donuts from the front bumper to the back bumper on the driver side. The only damage to the truck was some traded paint on the bumper and a broken side marker light. I am truly thankful that this ended with no injuries, no shots fired and only minor property damage.

    Was I in fear of my life? Yes and fear for my family. Was a response with deadly force justifiable? At the time I felt that we were being assaulted with a deadly weapon. Was a response with deadly force warranted? Thankfully no.

    Knowing what I know now, locking up the brakes and putting distance between the car and us would have been the safest, wisest, most sensible thing for all involved.

    Thanks for all the great responses. This was a crazy situation for sure. What surprised me the most is that with the exception of the pursuit afterwards this happened in probably under a minute but there seemed to be plenty of time to weigh options, responses and the like. Time seemed to slow down. Then again, I wasn't driving! Things could have been much different if my wife would have panicked.

  11. #25
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    The ONLY time I might, and emphasize might shoot at a moving vehicle is if I had a clear shot of the driver and he was kidnapping my child (spouse/loved one). Otherwise, observe, record (license #) and report (911)

  12. #26
    Member Array l1a1's Avatar
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    Thanks again for all of the response. This situation just illustrates to me that a real life defensive situation is not always black and white as to your response. I'm please to see that there is a consensus that the brake pedal and the cell phone trumped the trigger finger. As well as this turned out, I have maintained a few second thoughts. Mostly as to other directions this could have turned resulting in jeopordy of my family. Bottom line though, if I were to engage I would probably still be serving time in prison.

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    He probably didn't contact the authorities before the BG did.

    Like I said this happened a long time ago way out west in a very rural area.

    Stopping to fight while you can still go to a safer location is not a good idea. Only stop if you're forced to stop. Then as Bark'n said get out of your vehicle so you can maneuver & fight from behind some type of cover.

    If it happened today 911 on the cell is my first step. Slowing down & seeking the most populated area I can find while waiting for LEOs is my next step. (Hopefully, I could find a busy parking lot to circle around in until they arrived.)

    Stopping & fighting is the absolute last resort!

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    -
    Pull a gun on somebody for cutting you off in traffic, and it doesn't matter who calls the police first. They call that aggravated menacing in Ohio.

  14. #28
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    Just don't forget that you have a 20999970.832 gr projectile at your disposal should he decide to stop and charge at you with a weapon while your still in your car.

  15. #29
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    You can get in hot water for just brandishing a gun...if another driver didn't see the brake check and and only saw you draw down on another driver. I'd be all about calling 911 provide full description...Trooper would love to track that down an aggressive driver in real time I expect.
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  16. #30
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    I would NOT be surprised if soon cars will have a mounted camera that will video your entire trip if you like (like a bar mounted bike camera or a sports' cam), and you'll turn it on via a switch on the steering wheel like Cruise Control. THEN you'll have something like a black box. It would record if someone cut you off and help police find their license number. It will even have a deterrent effect - if you know you're probably on video you might be more courteous.

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