This doesn't really address the security issue, but this is what I use and no longer have the kids home. When the grandkids visit it gets moved. Also, a round is not chambered as it sits. I struggled to access the pistol when it was left under the edge of the bed and solved that by putting the bedside holster together. It worked out good since I'm a lefty and sleep on the left side. It was inexpensive since I had all the pieces. One old Bianchi holster, a piece of aluminum stock through the belt loop, a long piece of plywood, and ten minutes later. The holster rides high, tight, doesn't move and hides under a made bed.
I've yet to meet a toddler who can rack a 12 gauge.
^^^^ I kinda agree with this but got told otherwise here so.....
I think anyone that has a gun outside of a gun safe with toddlers is taking a huge risk that is not necessary. Unless you are a drug dealer in Compton with no alarm it does not justify the risk. I have a biometric safe in my walk in closet that was $125 on amazon. My alarm will let me know when the house is breached and I can jump in the closet and have the gun out in 5-8 seconds. I also have two large dogs so I think having warning is the key.
That's the problem with these mechanical locks. If you fumble the sequence while under stress, you can't open the lock without re-setting it.
Originally Posted by DocPMD
I use a Gunvault. It plugs in, and has batteries for back-up. You can also open it with a key. When the batteries get low, it chirps to let you know.
The solution to the OP's issue is simple - move the Gunvault from upside down and under the bed (?), to next to the bed - preferably bolted to the floor.
If only all problems were this simple to fix. :confused:
A good holster and a nightstand drawer. Put it in there when you go to bed (most kids go to bed before their parents), in the morning just take it out and put it on. You are in the room with it the whole time, if your child comes in you have control over the environment.
I have yet to have my toddler get into the room without waking me up. Maybe I'm just that light of a sleeper or he's just that loud.. usually because before he comes in he calls to us from the door.
Actually, he usually starts in with "Mommy! Daddy!" before he even gets out of his bed.
When we leave the room we take the gun with us.
If he goes back in our bedroom during the day there's nothing there to be worried about.
I have bought the 12" deep version of this >New Fort Knox Auto Pistol Box! - YouTube
I found thesafeplace.com after searching videos about safes. I heard about the gunvaults eating batteries on here and decided a handgun safe with no batteries would be the way to go.
Lima - with all due respect, this is a disaster waiting to happen. I'm frankly rather disappointed in this post of yours. :confused:
Originally Posted by limatunes
IIRC, you now have two children, correct? If an emergency happens with one, are you really going to grab your holster and put it on before running over to see what's up?
When you're exhausted from being up all night, for several nights in a row with a sick kid, are you willing to bet your kid's life that you will awaken if one of them comes into your room?
For what they cost, get a safe, for goodness sakes! :frown:
ETA - I would normally send this message as a private one, but given your status on the forum as a mod, and the fact that you are a woman and a mom, gives your opinion a certain amount of weight. I would hate for a newer shooter to read your post and conclude that it is ok to keep a loaded gun in a drawer when you have children in the home. I simply cannot disagree more strongly with this, without getting thrown off the forum. I'm a father of two myself, so I hope you understand that I'm coming from a place of genuine concern. Thanks.
I do agree with you that the OP needs to mount his Gunvault better so it is secure but can access it easily and that would solve the problem if he is comfortable with the box's design. However my preference for a handgun safe is the Simplex style push-button lock. Have you ever used one or had to reset the buttons? You simply turn the knob 90 degrees counterclockwise to clear the mistake and punch your correct code in. I am assuming you still need to basically do the same thing by re-entering your correct code on the Gunvault? Now if your Gunvault has a malfunction and that didn't work, do you really think you can get your key, insert in the dark and open it faster as you were implying? I doubt it. Besides, the tubular lock that is used as a backup seems to be very easy to pick from what I have seen. Why do all the electronic handgun safes have a backup key and none of the mechanical lock versions do? Simple is sometimes better in my opinion this application is one of them.
Originally Posted by 10thmtn
Safety is very important to both JD and I. We do not do anything we do lightly. And we have two safes.
Originally Posted by 10thmtn
And I have to disagree that our system is an accident waiting to happen.
I was raised in a home with loaded guns stashed around the house (under my Dad's bad, under my brother's bed, in the drawer by the back door, in the corner of the bedroom, in my parents' closet). My parents didn't get their first safe until after I left for college. We were taught from a very early age to respect firearms and handle them properly and all four of us kids made it out of that house alive.
My father and his five siblings were raised the same way and all of them made it out of their parents' home alive and with all their fingers and toes.
What I'm about to say is going to make some gasp but in some ways I think we take some things too far when it comes to worrying about them. Especially when kids are involved.
This whole thread kind of reminds me of my carrying a gun and a baby video. So many people have no problem with me carrying a gun but are suddenly aghast that I carry a gun around kids as though just having a child present makes someone loose all sense of brain power and control.
Yes, I have two children. I am careful and very safety conscious with them and their access to firearms.
There are, I believe, a few levels of safety and parent can incorporate to make sure there are no accidents with their children when it comes to firearms:
1. Educate your child.
2. Continually assess your child's abilities
3. Make rules
4. Enforce those rules
5. Be vigilant
6. Be honest
Our daughter is 2 months old. She's a long way from even knowing how to work her fingers much less get a hold of a gun. Our son is 3 and very curious and energetic. He is learning a lot about guns right now. We allow him to play with trainer guns and we work with him on educating him with the trainers as to what things are, what they do and how to handle a firearm. He also knows there is a difference between his trainers and our guns. If he sees our guns (usually on us) he even says, "Daddy's gun!" or "Mommy's gun."
I am constantly evaluating his new skills. I used to have a gun in a holster hidden on the kitchen counter. When he started to get to the point where he could climb and reach I moved it.
We have rules that he cannot touch Daddy's or Mommy's gun. Even when I'm open carrying around the house and he points and says, "Mommy's gun," he follows that up with, "Can't touch!" and he pulls his hands away.
We enforce those rules with him. He knows he can play with his trainers but if I'm sitting next to him and he sees my gun on my hip, even if he talks about it he doesn't reach for it because he knows that's off limits.
I believe the best place for a firearm around a child is on the body. You have the best control over it and can immediately respond if it is touched. That means that every room that has a gun in it is a room I am also in and can see what is going on.. when it comes to sleeping, I'm right there. Within arms reach. If he comes in I can immediately take control of the firearm and the situation as an additional layer to the levels of safety we have already established with our child. I am very conscious and vigilant about where my gun is and where my child is in relation to that gun (I also know I wake to the sound of his door whispering on the carpet... I don't sleep through much).
As to #6 (be honest) I am honest with myself about my own limitations. If I am particularly tired, going on medication for some reason, etc, I will insist on putting the firearms in a more secure place.
It's an imperfect world (we know that) and is our system absolutely, 100% guaranteed to keep our children from hurting themselves with a firearm? Nope.. but neither is anyone else's (unless they get rid of their guns altogether). Kids can still get into safes and lock boxes.
And who says I need to leave one child to go to the other? Take the other child with you. They are handily very mobile. Not to mention there are two parents in this house.. One for each of the munchkins. That's a pretty good ratio to make sure both kids and all guns are accounted for and aren't overlapping.
If things change, I'll change, my practices will change.
I know people disagree and that's fine but it doesn't make what we do any more dangerous or unconscious of safety for ourselves and our kids.
This is in the top drawer, next to my side of the bed. I can run the combo in the dark, just by touch. It's the same sequence for every gun vault in my house, so the muscle memory stays ingrained.
Lima - I know I won't change your mind. Just consider that, as parents, we sometimes judge our children's abilities incorrectly. See your step #2. They can sometimes surprise us, in a bad way. What if your son climbed up on the kitchen counter before you realized he had the ability to do so? My son is 8...believe me, there are such surprises in store for you and JD! :biggrin2:
The gun left "out of reach" - that wasn't. The parent that "always wakes up when his child enters the room" - who didn't. The ONE time. And it only takes once.
The argument that "we always had guns around the home when I was a kid" does not fly. When I was a kid, we had no seatbelts in the back seat of the car. Would you even dream of hauling your kids around like that today? Didn't think so. Would you dare smoke cigarettes around them? Or tolerate others doing same? Times change, and we hopefully get smarter.
Education is very important. But kids are kids. I firmly believe that, when kids and guns share the same home, you need to have at least two layers of defense to keep the guns out of their hands. And one of those layers involves keeping the guns in a safe when they are not on your body. With the quick access designs that are available at reasonable cost, please explain why you would choose NOT to use one?
Kathy Jackson has some good opinions about this, in her "Kids and Guns" section: Cornered Cat
Everything has pros and cons.
Originally Posted by FAS1
Yes, I have used Simplex locks. Turning the knob (both to open the safe and to clear an incorrect code entry) is an extra step that you do not need to do with an electronic GunVault. You enter the code, it pops open. If you enter the wrong code, you just put the correct one in.
If the power goes out, you have backup batteries. If the batteries are low, it will chirp and let you know.
Now, the older GunVaults had an issue with the steel cable that opened the lock fraying and breaking over time (happened to me). They have since redesigned the lock mechanism to eliminate that issue. But, if all else fails, you still have a key. Not ideal, but you can still get into the safe.
I use my GunVault more for keeping the guns away from the kids, than as serious protection from theft. With a pry bar, you could detach the whole thing from the floor and haul it away. But first, they have to get into the house, which has a security system. Layers of defense...
I know you are trying to promote your product, I respect that. I'm sure there are lots of folks that like the Simplex lock. I'll be sticking with my GunVault.
1. Educate your child.
2. Continually assess your child's abilities
3. Make rules
4. Enforce those rules
5. Be vigilant
6. Be honest
limatunes you self-grade yourself regarding criteria you created.
no suprise you pass your own test.
but others may consider different points-of-interest than your 6....or more
but in Connecticut the law makes it easy for us in regards loaded guns and minors....
"The Unsafe Storage of a loaded firearm where minors may be present is a felony."
just a heads-up should you visit the Nutmeg State.
your comment about observing and as the child's abilities change so will your arraignments;
perhaps he has been do these new things out of sight of you and only later doing it when he can be seen by you.
once they are mobile they change daily and you do not wish to be behind in your responsibilities as a parent.
and as for during the night--just supposing hubby is dead tired ( or sick) and you are in the bathrooom when the little one toddles in?
thinking that you are always in control is usually driven from our thoughts after our 1st car accident:
my fault, their fault...no one's fault. the fact is things happen no matter how well we plan.
so plan around that also.
should you need the handgun in the middle of the night, will the 1/2 second it takes to insert a mag and drop a slide actually matter?
10thmtn, I'm not stubborn or prideful, really.. Give me a good reason to change my practices and I will do it, happily!
I certainly don't believe I am "above" a surprise. Lord knows I HAVE had plenty of them already with my children and, yes, kids can suddenly do things they were never able to do before.
As a stay at home mom, I get to be privy to 99.9% of these brand new developments. I was tickling him when he rolled over for the first time. I was sitting on the floor in front of him when he crawled the first time and I was the one taunting him with a sucker when he took his first steps.
The first time my child pulled a chair over and tried to climb on the counter top was while I was standing beside him, making him breakfast. He was not able to make it because he did not have a tall enough chair and didn't possess the strength to hoist himself up but it was an alert to me that he was trying and able to figure it out and it was only a matter of time before he succeeded. It took him another couple of months before he was actually able to make it to the counter top.
The point is even if I am surprised that he suddenly does something new, I'm usually there to witness it and made aware that it is something new and to make note of and how it might change many things in our home from having to put the marshmellows up one shelf higher to the scissors being put in the back of the drawer instead of the front, etc.
And, yes, I do believe the "we always had guns around the home when I was a kid" argument DOES fly when you put it in the context of risk vs reward and account for the education of the child.
Kids without seatbelts? Traffic accident deaths have greatly declined with the use of seatbelts and child seats. Even the safest driver in the world had no control over the drunk that blew the red light or the ice in the road. Education has also played a huge role in teaching children to use seatbelts and their importance. And there is zero benefit to not wearing your seatbelt. It's not even inconvenient to wear your seatbelt.
Smoking? We have now learned that secondhand smoke causes cancer and asthma in children not to mention a lot of other nasties. And, again, there is no real benefit to smoking. Since banning smoking in many establishments and educating the public we are seeing a decline in those health issues related to smoking.
Now, guns and kids. I have yet to see evidence that lock boxes have dramatically decreased gun accidents vs vigilance and education. And there IS a benefit to not having your firearm locked away or unloaded as evidenced by those who do defend their homes with firearms they keep near-by, loaded and accessible.
Accidental poisonings, drownings and car accidents FAR out rank guns in deaths of children in 2007 per the CDC. And you would be pretty amazed at how many people do not have safes in their homes at all even though right now there are about 4 guns per household in the US (though, certainly, some homes have no guns at all). Yet accidental gun deaths remain very low and according to some websites the number continues to drop even with gun sales on the rise. Many accredit this firearms education programs. As someone who has spend a few years selling both guns and safes I can tell you it's not because safe sales are on the rise. Safes are actually a REALLY hard thing to sell (believe it or not).
Yes, some things we DO do for safety and for the better.. some things, I believe, we get a little too worried and worked up about.
I have been to Kathy Jackson's website many times and, like I said, we have two safes. Guns that are not being used for defensive purposes at that time are stored in them.
Like I said, I'm not stubborn, stupid or too prideful to say, "Hey, you are right and I'm wrong here" but I need to hear a good argument to convince me.
Crime in our area is going up. Criminals around here have been targeting people who shoot in gun leagues and have carry permits (as that information is public record) and breaking into their homes to steal their guns. One of the guys that spent 9 months working on my house has gone on medication that is making him unstable and has been showing up at job sites with strangers and very agitated. There are risks either way. Everyone has to do what they think is right and appropriate for the risk vs reward and their family's safety.