Global Social Unrest Puzzle Pieces Coming Together?

This is a discussion on Global Social Unrest Puzzle Pieces Coming Together? within the Home (And Away From Home) Defense Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Do I think we are headed for bad times? Perhaps someone could explain exactly how to get out of debt by continued borrowing? Pure and ...

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  1. #16
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    Do I think we are headed for bad times?
    Perhaps someone could explain exactly how to get out of debt by continued borrowing?

    Pure and simple logic seem to demonstrate to me that something is going to break down in this country...not sure if it's this year, or 5 years from now.
    It would only take a few days, perhaps 6-7 days for food sources in supermarkets to completely disappear...then a panic would take over.
    Did you ever notice how crazy people got over a new game that went on sale at WalMart on Black Friday? People were trampling one another and fighting for that last piece of merchandise.

    Imagine what people would do for FOOD?

    We could be faced with a lot worse if our dollar lost its worth. People could lose savings, investments, and even retirement incomes...especially the 'entitlements'...then, like in Greece, people would riot.
    The best thing we can do is prepare for the worst and hope that it doesn't happen.
    Extra food and extra ammo is something we have all read about as important. Having other plans and supplies doesn't hurt, but those without some planning could be up a creek without a paddle.
    Plan ahead...don't say that you weren't warned.
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  3. #17
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    @Retsupt---You as I and many others here have lived through "a lot worse." Our nation has lived through
    "a lot worse." At the end of the Revolutionary war the nation's debt equaled its GDP. (I saw that comment
    in a biography of Hamilton.) Appropriate taxation and growth no one anticipated made it all go away and become
    inconsequential.

    The hyper-inflation of the late 70s and most of the 80s was blamed on debt, including the very high interest rate,
    yet here we are with apparently as much debt if not more and very low interest rates. The rest of the world still being
    more than willing to buy our bonds.

    You, as I, have lived on this earth long enough to know that there is always one hyped crisis or another that keeps
    the attention of the press and the public and gets folks riled up. A few months, a few years, go by and somehow
    these become irrelevant in our lives.

    An interesting exercise is to go to a library and get some Time magazines or NYTimes microfiche from the 1960s, 1970s,
    and so on, and read the opinion columns and the editorials. They are mostly a big hoot, totally laughable, when looked at
    from today's perspective. We didn't run out of oil. We didn't blow ourselves and the world up. Disease, pestilence and famine,
    have not brought us to our knees. Exiting VN didn't cause a fall of dominoes. We don't have a Mars colony. We don't have hydrogen economy. Cancer hasn't been conquered. And so forth.

    No one knows the future and we can always do better in many many ways, but history shows that foretelling our dooms is a fool's bet. Betting against the US is a fools bet.

    You want debt cut. Me too. The problem is coming up with a plan which doesn't cause more harm than the disease.
    Last edited by Hopyard; March 25th, 2012 at 03:42 PM. Reason: minor punctuation
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    Plan ahead...don't say that you weren't warned.
    I Agree with what you said retsupt99. Heading to $16 TRILLION in national DEBT has never happened before, especially with no political will to turn the debt tide in Washington. I think me and mine will follow the Boy Scouts on this one and "Be Prepared".

    I am reminded of a story my dad regularly read to us kids after reading Hopyard's posts. The story goes: King Nebuchadnezzer brought his army to surround Jerusalem in 582 BC. The people inside the city were convinced that the walls were impregnable so they taunted the Babylonians from the walls and they partied late into the nights. The guards slept at night and the people of Jerusalem went up on the walls and rooftops to get drunk and dance. When Nebuchadnezzer stormed the city one morning at first light, its inhabitants were drunk, asleep or hungover. Those who were not killed were taken into slavery to a foreign land. Jerusalem was destroyed and the land was SALTED to make it uninhabitable.Even when the enemy is right before us....some will deny the danger. Just saying.
    "Improvise, adapt, overcome."

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    Do I think we are headed for bad times?
    Perhaps someone could explain exactly how to get out of debt by continued borrowing?

    Pure and simple logic seem to demonstrate to me that something is going to break down in this country...not sure if it's this year, or 5 years from now.
    It would only take a few days, perhaps 6-7 days for food sources in supermarkets to completely disappear...then a panic would take over.
    Did you ever notice how crazy people got over a new game that went on sale at WalMart on Black Friday? People were trampling one another and fighting for that last piece of merchandise.

    Imagine what people would do for FOOD?

    We could be faced with a lot worse if our dollar lost its worth. People could lose savings, investments, and even retirement incomes...especially the 'entitlements'...then, like in Greece, people would riot.
    The best thing we can do is prepare for the worst and hope that it doesn't happen.
    Extra food and extra ammo is something we have all read about as important. Having other plans and supplies doesn't hurt, but those without some planning could be up a creek without a paddle.
    Plan ahead...don't say that you weren't warned.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    @Retsupt---You as I and many others here have lived through "a lot worse." Our nation has lived through
    "a lot worse." At the end of the Revolutionary war the nation's debt equaled its GDP. (I saw that comment
    in a biography of Hamilton.) Appropriate taxation and growth no one anticipated made it all go away and become
    inconsequential.

    The hyper-inflation of the late 70s and most of the 80s was blamed on debt, including the very high interest rate,
    yet here we are with apparently as much debt if not more and very low interest rates. The rest of the world still being
    more than willing to buy our bonds.

    You, as I, have lived on this earth long enough to know that there is always one hyped crisis or another that keeps
    the attention of the press and the public and gets folks riled up. A few months, a few years, go by and somehow
    these become irrelevant in our lives.

    An interesting exercise is to go to a library and get some Time magazines or NYTimes microfiche from the 1960s, 1970s,
    and so on, and read the opinion columns and the editorials. They are mostly a big hoot, totally laughable, when looked at
    from today's perspective. We didn't run out of oil. We didn't blow ourselves and the world up. Disease, pestilence and famine,
    have not brought us to our knees. Exiting VN didn't cause a fall of dominoes. We don't have a Mars colony. We don't have hydrogen economy. Cancer hasn't been conquered. And so forth.

    No one knows the future and we can always do better in many many ways, but history shows that foretelling our dooms is a fools bet. Betting against the US is a fools bet.

    You want debt cut. Me too. The problem is coming up with a plan which doesn't cause more harm than the disease.
    I'm guessing that retsupt99, Hopyard, and I are fairly close in age groups (except I get nervous when Hopyard says he lived through worse and starts quoting things from the Revolutionary war).

    I know we seem to always have "the crisis of the hour" but it seems the intensity and the rampant following of the uninformed masses is growing exponentially on every new windmill they tilt at and how far can this pendulum swing before the "entitled" believe what they are saying to themselves and try to take what they "think" they deserve?

    Common sense and common decency are no longer common it seems.

    Thanks guys for keeping this thread running down the path I was hoping for and I hope to see other input.

    It's cathartic to hear others have similar concerns and thoughts on things.

  6. #20
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    I think it is prudent to be prepared, and I plan on acting accordingly. Now does that mean there is an underground bunker in the back yard and a years supply of provisions? Ah, no. I learned some time ago, my crystal ball broke, and any ability I thought I could have had at one time to predict the future is forever gone. So, I don't spend much time worrying about it, just trying to get a plan together if things change.

    As far as threats to the global community, I think it is on two fronts. Despite the various opinions of US foreign policy, to some degree, I think in today's world, it prevents a global free for all for the most part. Russia is on the rise again and flirting with more involvement in the Middle East. If the US gets its knees knocked out from underneath and Russia gains a place of prominence, that could set the stage for events that could not have been imagined. This is not about democracy versus communism. That is political ideology and for the most part already played out. These events would be more aligned with global control. Far fetched? Sure. Impossible? I'm not convinced that it is impossible yet. There has already been saber rattling around the replacement of the dollar as the global trade standard. It appears to have died off for now, but is sure to raise its head again. Russia is getting involved in Syria. And it appears that the Occupy movement and others that could come behind it was about destabilizing the status quo. We'll see how it shakes out, but I plan on paying a little more attention for the time being.
    Last edited by JoeFriday; March 25th, 2012 at 11:21 PM.
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  7. #21
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    FWIW, I didn't dig a bomb shelter in the 60s and I have no plan of digging a shelter, symbolic, or monetary or real
    in the present.

    I put a smile on my face when NYC (and my non-vaporized posterior) were still there the hours immediately
    after the Russians turned their flotilla back from a path toward Cuba.

    Keep smiling.

    The bugaboo word of the thread appears to be "entitlements." You all do know that's a phony code word, I hope.
    It means "hate the poor." Or maybe it means, "hate your grandpa." Or maybe it means, "let them eat cake."
    We know what happened to the last public official who said "let them eat cake."
    Rock and Glock likes this.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  8. #22
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    Check out the chart here:
    Population Numbers, Graphs, and Data - SUSPS - Support US Population Stabilization - Support a Comprehensive Sierra Club Population Policy

    Or the timeline here:
    World Population Growth History Chart

    By 2050 or so, how does the entire planet NOT look like today's Haiti?
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  9. #23
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    The last public official? Ah yes, poor Marie, she lost her head...apparently using those words.

    Hopyard, you must be MUCH older me..., I do not remember much about the Revolutionary War.

    O.K., back to the topic...
    We can see some problematic comparisons in history when comparing events today, with those of the past.

    There is, however, a factor that weighs in that did not really rear its ugly head in the past like it does today.
    That factor is the illegal drug industry. This factor alone, has made things a 1000 times worse. Drug use is probably behind 80-90 percent of today's crime. Not a proven fact, just talk with the cop I work with...by any measurement, drugs play an important part of today's crime rate. This was not so, in past decades.

    Now do I think we are going to have a collapse and see the end of our country? I don't think so, but back during the depression, people would WORK to survive if given the opportunity...they would even stand in line for hours to be fed in a soup line.
    I doubt that our present day society would even stand in line for government food without violence...heck, people will riot over 'game sales'.

    The entitlements I speak of are the 'give aways' people can get without any contribution to that pot of entitlement money.
    I pay taxes and at the end of the year, the government may give me a little back. I do find it hard to understand how someone who pays NO taxes, gets something back.
    I have to take a drug test to work, but someone getting 'free money' can cry foul at having to do the same.

    Cut off government assistance, and/or destroy pension dollars through a collapse...you'll need a firearm to get the mail (if there is mail service).

    I guess we'll have to wait and see, but be sure to stock up on food and ammo, and all the other emergency supplies people might need.

    Here's a bit of reading...just something to think about. One doesn't have to agree or disagree, but we are certainly "living in interesting times..."

    12 More Signs That Society Is Collapsing
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    The last public official? Ah yes, poor Marie, she lost her head...apparently using those words.

    Hopyard, you must be MUCH older me..., I do not remember much about the Revolutionary War.

    O.K., back to the topic...
    We can see some problematic comparisons in history when comparing events today, with those of the past.
    There is, however, a factor that weighs in that did not really rear its ugly head in the past like it does today.
    That factor is the illegal drug industry. This factor alone, has made things a 1000 times worse. Drug use is probably behind 80-90 percent of today's crime. Not a proven fact, just talk with the cop I work with...by any measurement, drugs play an important part of today's crime rate. This was not so, in past decades.
    We didn't have the crime problem pre-20th century because folks were mostly able to put whatever they wanted into their
    body; however, by all accounts there were severe problems from alcoholism and various "cure alls" which contained
    the same drugs we now make illegal. The past was not a social utopia free from drug abuse. There was probably
    a much higher rate (my guess) of domestic violence and adults engaging in street fighting than today.

    I don't think illegal drugs are going to bring our end; failed policy towards and about them will not bring our end either. It is a small potatoes issue in the global scheme of things where huge nations compete with each other. I'm more concerned that China will decide to retake Taiwan than I am about the drug lords.

    Now do I think we are going to have a collapse and see the end of our country? I don't think so, but back during the depression, people would WORK to survive if given the opportunity...they would even stand in line for hours to be fed in a soup line.
    I doubt that our present day society would even stand in line for government food without violence...heck, people will riot over 'game sales'.
    I agree with you about the above. There is an awful lack of civility and self-discipline in our American society. And we better
    get a handle on it. I moderate another board and just as the mods here often do, I have to delete participants because they
    just don't get it that being foul mouthed isn't a G-d given right.

    The entitlements I speak of are the 'give aways' people can get without any contribution to that pot of entitlement money.
    I pay taxes and at the end of the year, the government may give me a little back. I do find it hard to understand how someone who pays NO taxes, gets something back.
    Here's how. Earned income tax credit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    And--The Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC), sometimes called the Earned Income Credit (EIC), is a refundable Federal income tax credit for low-income working individuals and families. Congress originally approved the tax credit legislation in 1975 in part to offset the burden of social security taxes and to provide an incentive to work Tax Credit or Income Transfer? by Laurence M. Vance

    And "Things remained the same until July 18, 1984, when President Ronald Reagan signed Public Law 98-369 (H.R. 4170), otherwise known as the Deficit Reduction Act of 1984. This increased the EITC benefit to 11 percent with a maximum of $550. "
    Ibid.

    So, there you have your answer to the "I do find it hard to understand how someone who pays NO taxes, gets something back."
    Stricly speaking your assumption isn't correct.

    I have to take a drug test to work, but someone getting 'free money' can cry foul at having to do the same.
    IMO employment drug testing except for safety sensitive positions (your school bus driver) should be stopped. That's a whole
    other topic, and I could go on for hours on why.

    Cut off government assistance, and/or destroy pension dollars through a collapse...you'll need a firearm to get the mail (if there is mail service).
    This goes back to something you mentioned earlier, and with which I concur. There is an awful lack of civility and self-discipline. Stopping assistance isn't the answer. Restoring civility and creating paths to self respect might be
    a better answer.

    I guess we'll have to wait and see, but be sure to stock up on food and ammo, and all the other emergency supplies people might need.
    Your choice.

    Here's a bit of reading...just something to think about. One doesn't have to agree or disagree, but we are certainly "living in interesting times..."

    12 More Signs That Society Is Collapsing
    Everyone who has every lived, lived in interesting and changing, and dangerous times. That becomes very apparent when you
    read history. Any history.
    Last edited by Hopyard; March 25th, 2012 at 06:46 PM.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Check out the chart here:
    Population Numbers, Graphs, and Data - SUSPS - Support US Population Stabilization - Support a Comprehensive Sierra Club Population Policy

    Or the timeline here:
    World Population Growth History Chart

    By 2050 or so, how does the entire planet NOT look like today's Haiti?
    Mike, I agree. This issue is the big gorilla the room. To some extent we can side step it with "new energy" production, but
    in the end there is only X amount of arable land to feed an ever increasing number of people; and there is only y amount of
    potable water for an ever increasing number of people. "New energy" might mitigate the water issue, but it can't do a thing
    about how many acres a cow needs till it is ready for market.

    The population problem is a solvable one, but we can't and shouldn't discuss the hows here or we will bring the board down. The mods have been through enough last week. Let's leave that issue alone. It probably should be banned just like several other topics are.
    Rock and Glock likes this.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Mike, I agree. This issue is the big gorilla the room. To some extent we can side step it with "new energy" production, but
    in the end there is only X amount of arable land to feed an ever increasing number of people; and there is only y amount of
    potable water for an ever increasing number of people. "New energy" might mitigate the water issue, but it can't do a thing
    about how many acres a cow needs till it is ready for market.

    The population problem is a solvable one, but we can't and shouldn't discuss the hows here or we will bring the board down. The mods have been through enough last week. Let's leave that issue alone. It probably should be banned just like several other topics are.
    I'm not sure why it was allowed to fly in the first place, so to that extent, I agree. It has nothing to do with home (and away) defense. It does strike me as odd, however that it is OK to mess with the deck chairs right up until someone mentions the gaping hole below the waterline.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

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    You never know what might happen. Since 1971 we've been living on borrowed time, in terms of our monetary system. No paper currency in history has ever lasted a particularly long time. When the day of reckoning comes for our increasingly weak dollar, that will be when I say we are living in "interesting" times. Perhaps we will be able to orderly transition to real money, as we were after the Civil War. Maybe not. In any event, there is no reason not to have a little extra food, ammo, and some silver and gold coins around. Best-case scenario, gold and silver are always easily liquidated and are pretty and shiny; ammo is fun to shoot and we all have to eat. Don't live your life in fear, but don't get caught with your pants down if things go wrong. Whether the country collapses tomorrow, next week, next year, decade, whenever....what will your individual circumstances be? I would just be sure you're thinking in that context, as you get your "emergency kit" ready to go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I'm not sure why it was allowed to fly in the first place, so to that extent, I agree. It has nothing to do with home (and away) defense. It does strike me as odd, however that it is OK to mess with the deck chairs right up until someone mentions the gaping hole below the waterline.
    Agreed Mike. Wrong topic in the wrong forum on the wrong board. I'm sorry I jumped in. In the various accounts of the Titanic, didn't the band (orchestra) play on?
    Rock and Glock likes this.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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    Are there any other frogs out there who feel the water's getting warmer? How many black swans does it take for one to blot out the sun?

    A little preparedness, like a little insurance, is voluntary...mostly right now. If you eat and shoot, how could it hurt to have a little extra food and ammo on hand? The fact that we carry shows that preparedness is important to us. Human survival has depended on those who prepared. Which is better? Carrying a defensive tool knowing evil exists, but thinking and hoping never to need it. Or ignoring a dangerous world in order to not worry and be happy.

    Normally happy and hard working German people lost hope after unsustainable reparations and debt were loaded upon them after the War to end all wars. Out of the ensuing chaos, there emerged a dictatorship. Our "betters" in academia and the media told us not to worry. Time Magazine pictured Adolf as "Man of the Year." Happy thoughts and appeasement only delayed the inevitable, until Churchill said this.

    "If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a small chance of survival. There may even be a worse case: you may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves."

    Debt enslaves us and our posterity. When something is unsustainable, it will end. Math is hard. Our massive deficit spending on entitlements, both federal and public, will end. Printing more fiat dollars, while the rest of the world still accepts it, only delays the inevitable. We produced our way out of debt after WWII, because the rest of the world was wrecked. But now they are the producers to whom we are indebted. How many more months, or years, can we be happy and not worry?
    Last edited by gunthorp; March 26th, 2012 at 12:34 PM.
    Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776

    Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
    ("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
    -Virgil, Aeneid, vi, 95

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    [QUOTE=Nick62;2210948]
    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    I think they are part of the occupy movement already....

    Nope..Big Difference between Zombies and Occupiers, as can be demonstrated by this simple experiment: If you put a round through a Zombie's head, you cause severe damage to a vital organ. With an Occupier, not a chance.
    Good thing I wasn't taking a drink when I read this...... LMAO!!!!!!!
    Tim
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    Si vis pacem, para bellum
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