Thoughts about Aurora...

This is a discussion on Thoughts about Aurora... within the Home (And Away From Home) Defense Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by pogo2 In the situation described, the shooter has such a tremendous advantage over any bystander armed with a handgun that it seems ...

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  1. #16
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pogo2 View Post
    In the situation described, the shooter has such a tremendous advantage over any bystander armed with a handgun that it seems very unlikely that he could be stopped. Just consider the list of shooter advantages:

    1. The shooter has a plan and the advantage of surprise - the movie audience is relaxed and not expecting this to happen.
    2. The shooter is wearing body armor.
    3. The shooter discharged tear gas to start, but he is wearing a mask to protect himself.
    4. The shooter has a high capacity rifle and backup guns, while the defenders have one or two pistols.
    5. Hundreds of people are milling around in panic, and the shooter can achieve his goals by shooting into the crowd and hitting any of them. The defender must avoid hitting innocent people and focus his fire on one individual target.
    6. Even if the defender knows there is a shooter active, he may not be able to see him, given the darkness of the theater and the hundreds of people running everywhere.
    7. The shooter has nobody with him to protect, and is probably mentally prepared to die, while the defender may be concerned with the safety of people with him, and is also concerned with his own preservation.

    It seems to me that the shooter spent a long time planning this and selecting his equipment carefully, such that he was virtually unstoppable.
    Defender Advantage:

    Mentally unstable dirtbag is expecting ZERO resistance
    BkCo1 likes this.

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array RKflorida's Avatar
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    I not sure I agree that the establishment that has no-gun signs should take partial responsibility. I do believe the bulk (if not all) the responsibility is on the person who patronizes the establishment. No gun? no me. Responsibility for our own actions is I often say but if the truth be known, I sometimes don't accept for myself due to my pride. If you are a concealed carry person and saw that sign, you made a decision at that instant that you would have to live with.

    So much for the theory, in practice, what the hell has become of this society? You have to treat every trip, or entry into a business as a swat team exercise? You have to examine the tactics of your life on a daily/hourly basis? Is this the freedom and safety we have fought for? We are losing too many people to the bad guys and the only answer seems to be to arm ourselves more heavily. My personal believe is that we have thrown God out of the country and now we are suffering the results of that action. Can we ever arm enough of ourselves to fight back? I didn't see this future when I was growing up in the 50's. Neither did my parents or grandparents. It was always assumed that if you kept your nose clean, you'd be OK. (All my family were cops or navy) Now it looks like a tide of evil is spilling over into every nook of our lives. It's a sad state of affairs fellow DC-ers, very sad.
    revldm and Rockymonster like this.

  4. #18
    Ex Member Array Bullet1234's Avatar
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    GUNFREE ZONES are ALWAYS targets,,,,, do you believe these NUTJOBS would try this at
    a SHERIFF CONVENTION,,,,, not likely,,,,, they want the meek, the mild, those unable
    to defend themselves,,,,, the only way to stop this kind of BG is with force & as soon
    as he was confronted with possible death for himself ,,,,, he gave up without a fight.


    NO GUNS = NO ME
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  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by gulfstream View Post
    I do believe that had there been multiple people legally carrying, the outcome would have been different.
    Odds of anyone being in the right place to do something are very slim, but if more than one person were legally carrying, the odds would go up that someone might have been able to end the situation sooner.

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array Old Sarge's Avatar
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    It's best said by several of the above posters. "No Guns=NO Me!!!!!!!!! Amen, Brother

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RKflorida View Post
    what the hell has become of this society? You have to treat every trip, or entry into a business as a swat team exercise? You have to examine the tactics of your life on a daily/hourly basis?
    No. But a bit of intelligent forethought and preparation can go a long, long way toward helping one increase the odds of surviving a situation, whether that be a car crash, an injury nowhere near a hospital emergency room, or a violent attack.
    Echo_Four likes this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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  8. #22
    Senior Member Array crue2009's Avatar
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    i know one thing for sure,this tragedy couldn't have come at a worse time with the United Nations Arms Treaty set to move forward on july 27th,not good for all the responsible,law abiding gun owners in the U.S

  9. #23
    Senior Member Array RKflorida's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    No. But a bit of intelligent forethought and preparation can go a long, long way toward helping one increase the odds of surviving a situation, whether that be a car crash, an injury nowhere near a hospital emergency room, or a violent attack.
    I understand what you say and agree with it. What I'm saying is that these BG incidents are going into a warfare scenario. Putting some road flares in your trunk with a spare tire and tools is a long way from having to be combat trained to get a pedicure. My point is that these type of events are becoming epidemic. You are correct that you need to be armed and otherwise "ready" to face violence at all times, but I say we need to declare as a society that this is unacceptable and take whatever action is needed to correct this evil incursion. I will stay prepared, like a boy scout, but I hate having to be prepared like a member of a Seal team.

  10. #24
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    You can take all of your training, your skills in hitting paper targets under controlled conditions, your confidence in yourself & your weapon, stick them all in a bag & flush them down the toilet under those kind of high-adrenalin situations when you least expect it & blinded by CS tear gas & with great difficulty breathing.

    Personally if I were armed I'd definitely try to take him out knowing full well I'd probably be the next target.
    Glenn

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  11. #25
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    So shooter had an advantage that did not make him unstoppable .
    If a fair amount of citizens had their weapon with them he could have been stopped even with a vest on get hit enough you be hurting someone would have hit an arm leg head he would have been stopped.
    But with everyone's protection in the trunk or at home there was no chance at all. I will take some chnace virus no chnace anyday.

  12. #26
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    The "I'm-Beat-Already-In-That-Situation" attitudes of so many on a forum called DefensiveCarry truly amaze me....
    Harryball, 10thmtn, BkCo1 and 1 others like this.

  13. #27
    New Member Array Malchira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo_Four View Post
    * The CT grips on the 1911 would be useless due to the smoke in the air from the grenade.
    This may be a minor point, but it caught my eye. Not sure how you meant "useless"; in smoke, the laser will still work, and (with enough smoke) it will also be visible across its entire length. This is potentially both good and bad; aiming with it will be easier, but it would also be really obvious where the beam is coming from. So maybe you meant useless because it would draw attention/fire.

    Either way, something to think about for those who use LaserGrips.

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array CLASS3NH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottM View Post
    ^ ^ ^ THIS ^ ^ ^

    Another reason to practice/train more often

    Another reason to be armed with something besides a .380/.32/J-frame in the pocket

    Another reason for carrying a spare magazine(s)

    For those who just 'carry in the car' or 'when they go to the bad area of town', a wake-up call perhaps (nah, probably not). "It'll never happen to me."

    Until it does!

    A co-worker lamented that 'now we have to carry guns just to go to the movies'. My reply was that "Nothing in my life has changed over the last 24hrs."
    Well said Barkin and Scott.
    I totally agree with what both of you have said.
    I for one, due to working Close Security when I was younger, we all carried Beretta 92F guns with 3 spare mags. This extra mag usually gave us the option to either supply a spare mag to another Operator in need, or to defend ourselves should it get down and dirty in the protection of the Client.
    Call it what you wish, but I still carry 3 spare mags or 3 extra speedloaders in my EDC, and a box of 50 in my vehicle (I'm NOT paranoid, but prepared for the worst case senerio, should it ever happen) Of course, climate /weather/heat conditions dictate what defensive weapon I (all of you included) may utilize on that particular day/night.
    Training training training and forward thinking mindset is the best defense for any situation like what ocurred in Aurora.
    Even if the shooter is wearing body armor, he/she still feels the impact of the rounds hitting the bodyarmor. If you're able to get enough hits on the shooter, I believe you/ we just may have a slight chance of getting close enough for a head/neck arm/foot shot. Anything to help slow down the threat, or make them rethink their position.
    With that said, it just may give us that tactical atvantage to stay alive and stop the threat should we ever be in that position, and hopefully none of us will ever have to defend ourselves against a madman like that.
    Just my thought pattern and sorry for being so longwinded.
    Why Waltz when you can Rock-N-Roll

  15. #29
    Member Array TxCommish's Avatar
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    Can we all say, "Monday morning Quarterback?" Woulda, shoulda, coulda. Really? I know some of you guys are hardcore. But, under the circumstances, I think the best any of us could have done is draw his fire away from the innocents. I would have had no problem (at 60 years old and most of the way thru this journey) engaging the guy, trying to shoot his legs and feet if I realized he had armor, and getting him to try to shoot me instead of unarmed dads, moms and kids. That said, for the guys who would shoot his body armor or face etc, I'll just say that I was a witness to the 2005 Tyler,Texas Courthouse shooting (Google it) and with hundreds of rounds being fired by LEOs hitting their mark, the BG just kept shooting.
    Hopyard and forcifer like this.
    "If you only knew the power of the dark side!" - Darth Vader

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array xXxplosive's Avatar
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    Interviews last evening of eye witnesses who were in the 3rd row of the theatre when the shootin started said the shooter focused his opening salvos at the top rows in the theatre......maybe, just maybe, if someone was armed in the first few rows after it was acknowledged he was live firing.....maybe could have ended this massacre.....I don't know......Geeeezzzzzz.

    We're always hesitant to get involved untill we have a clear and positive understanding of what is actually happening......this defined the word "Mayhem".

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