12 gauge vs .40 cal vs 5.56 for home defense
This is a discussion on 12 gauge vs .40 cal vs 5.56 for home defense within the Home (And Away From Home) Defense Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by cltyus1
Hey forum, I currently have a glock 23 (40 cal) and a remington 870 12 gauge shotgun for home defense. I ...
August 5th, 2012 06:31 AM
The first thing to remember is that there is no "free lunch". Anything that will penetrate deeply enough to reach the vital organs of a human assailant will easily penetrate an interior household wall. There is no way around this fact.
Originally Posted by cltyus1
Every round you listed will "overpenetrate" on a miss. However, if you are using the proper ammunition, the 5.56 will be less of a threat in adjacent rooms than 00 buck or the .40 round.
Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.
August 5th, 2012 07:35 AM
A shotgun with birdshot loads, the projectiles have less chances of whizzing through a criminal, or the wall behind him. Shotgun slug loads involve the same risk of over penetration as a centerfire rifle, and should be reserved for use outdoors. Birdshot loads considerably reduce that risk. However, shot loads will do substantial and often unacceptable damage to the home in which they are fired.
A handgun is handy indoors and can be conveniently concealed almost anywhere in the home, ready for use.
As for long guns, I wish I could find an article I read about a 9mm FMJ actually had more wall penetration then the Remington .223 hollow point rounds. Which also went on in stating that A short barreled rifle with .223 hollow points is a much better option then any handgun or shot gun
August 5th, 2012 11:31 AM
Why would download a modern double action revolver?
Originally Posted by billstaf
My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.
Hobbit lives matter.
"The way of the warrior does not include other ways.....But if you know the way broadly you will see it in everything" - Miyamoto Musashi -
August 5th, 2012 11:43 AM
Invest in a good alarm system, or a dog, so you have advance warning in the middle of the night, my kids know the drill if they hear the alarm at night, is on the floor and on far side of bed, and stay there till i come get you.....house alarm is a total different than fire alarms, but i keep a glock 23 / laser light combo, with quality hollowpoints, that is my first go to, because it is fastest, easier to maneuver through the house, and the strobe light is very disorenting to whoever is looking your way, the red dot leaves not a doubt where the bullet is going, just hope I never have to use it....there is also a 12 gauge, ready to rock, if it is an outside threat, that goes with me with glock in pants or holster....all depends on situation....prepare for many, in case you have to use one.
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American GI. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.
I asked my stock broker the other day, what I should be investing in ....his reply, canned goods n ammo !!!
August 5th, 2012 12:00 PM
Thanx,I have a pit bull, ADT, glock 23, and Remington 870....my daughter is only 2 though
Originally Posted by JerryMac
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August 5th, 2012 12:12 PM
You can never have enough options. Great job on the alarm. I only like it for alerting me or letting whatever criminal is entering that everyone will know something is going on. Next on the list is a dog. Joking aside i vote shotgun, wife gets the xd and I take the Mossberg.
"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt" ~ Mark Twain
August 5th, 2012 12:38 PM
I wouldn't want to maneuver around house with a shotgun. Especially if you don't know if intruder is already in. He can grab the barrel easily.
S&W M&P 45, Colt Delta Elite Customized
August 5th, 2012 12:41 PM
I wouldn't be maneuvering at all... I'd be lying in wait at the top of the stairs with a 12 gauge surprise party.
Originally Posted by RubenZ
I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
August 5th, 2012 12:57 PM
***** surprise party exactly.
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August 5th, 2012 01:47 PM
You are right, of course. There is no longer a need for keeping the hammer down on an empty cylinder in any of today's DA pistols.
Originally Posted by 40Bob
Some old safety habits are hard to overcome.
August 5th, 2012 02:30 PM
My experience says it is easy to miss with a shotgun. Check out these patterns from DocGKR on M4carbine.net:
Originally Posted by BigJon10125
[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people. ---Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.
August 5th, 2012 02:57 PM
You can miss with anything
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August 5th, 2012 03:36 PM
Great thing about the 870: the sound of a pump shotgun is unmistakable. They know you mean business, and that they will lose. Likely they will leave quickly after they hear that sound, and that ends the threat. #6 or smaller will not over penetrate, but will certainly do a lot of damage to an intruder.
Hopefully the racking of the pumpgun will do the trick: I don't want to shoot anyone, and blood is hard to get out of carpet!
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August 5th, 2012 05:31 PM
Originally Posted by Ctownbmxr
Don"t let stupid be your skill set....
Hobbit lives matter....
Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......
August 5th, 2012 05:57 PM
I had the same questions until I thought it happened to me. I think I posted this here before? Which weapon you choose would depend on your training, practice, configuration and layout of your home, and occupants location. With the above mentioned, my capabilities are best served with a pistol in general, and a 7 shot revolver in particular fitted with laser sights. Long read below.
Talk about a reality check? The wife and I were deep asleep when this piercing sound woke me up. Coming out of such a deep sleep, it took me a moment to realize it was the burglar alarm. If any of you have an ADT system with that ear piercing whistling siren, you know what I’m talking about.
We have had this system for about a year and a half and have never had any false alarms. I was thinking of that and many other things as I grabbed my S&W 686+, .357 magnum pistol sitting on top of my nightstand next to me. I also have a Remington 870 shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot next to the bed. I realize now the shotgun is just too unwieldy for the configuration of my home.
Shaking and somewhat confused on what to do next, not being able to hear anything because of the ear-piercing siren, I decided the siren had to be turned off because it could not be tolerated for any length of time. The single control panel is located in the kitchen at the opposite end of the house. The siren is located on the hallway wall half way between the bedroom and kitchen control panel.
As I slowly and carefully made my way down the hall while checking for intruders, the siren was actually hurting my ears, and my hands were shaking. We always keep a living room lamp light on. After checking the living room, dining room and kitchen and seeing it was clear, I disabled the siren. What a head relief!
Fortunately having a pair of reading glasses near the alarm control panel I checked the code on the read out. Code 02, basement motion detector. This is where I always suspected to be the most logical place for a BG to enter. The motion detector immediately activates the alarm, not the 45 second count down for the windows and doors.
At that moment the telephone in the living room rings, we don’t have a phone in the bedrooms. I’m certain it’s ADT calling about the alarm. The wife had followed me down a few moments later.
The door leading to the basement has the standard doorknob lock, a dead bolt and one of those useless chain things with the tiny screws securing it. I tell the wife to answer the phone as I am covering the basement door hoping no one will come barging through. The ADT person tells my wife, “we have received an alarm from your address, Code 02 basement motion detector, what is your password?” The wife is relaying this information to me as my eyes are trained on the basement door.
The ADP person asked my wife, “are you going to check the basement or do you want us to send the police?” With hands still shaking I thought for a moment… To me, the best course of action was to get the police here, quick. She informed my wife they are calling. It was probably 3-4 minutes from the time the alarm went off until ADT called, assuming I immediately awoke when the alarm went off.
I have a police scanner sitting close to the alarm panel I seldom use and thought this was an opportune time to turn it on to monitor the Sheriffs progress. I live in EBFE and sure enough, the deputy sheriff called dispatch for directions.
The dispatcher called and informed my wife that the deputy was here and unchaining my driveway gate. The deputy later informed me it was policy to call the homeowner before arrival for safety reasons (home owner with gun). It took roughly 20 minutes for the deputy to arrive.
While waiting for the police to arrive I happened to look at the clock, a few minutes after 3 A.M. Thinking to myself, from what I’ve read, two to three o’clock seems to be the prime time for home invasions.
Seeing the police car driving up my 200+ yard driveway, I pondered what to do with my handgun. Put it away or keep it near and cover it with a towel or something. Since he was on scene I felt comfortable enough to take it back where it came from.
I didn’t know if he would come to the front or back door so I turned on the front and backlights and opened the doors. He cautiously approached the back door and announced sheriffs department and I made myself visible and told him to come in.
I gave him a brief description of what happened and the alarm code. He told me the first bit of good news was my gate was closed and chained when he arrived (no pad lock, just a clip).
He then cautiously opened the basement door with flashlight in hand, turned the basement light on and slowly started down the stairs. I’m thinking, dude, you need to have your handgun drawn? I’m reasonably certain someone broke in and might still be there. But, I’m not about to say anything as he is a professional and is trained, it’s my over active imagination probably.
After what seemed to be an hour, but probably only 4-5 minutes, I hear the officer coming up the steps. He was down there for quite some time. Now I’m really wondering where they broke in from and how much damage was done. He asks me a couple questions about my garage door, something about if it locks? The single car garage is separated from the basement with a flimsy hollow door and dead bolt.
With great anticipation, he finally tells me everything looks secure and there was no break in. I can’t tell you the relief my wife and I experienced at that news. It still took us a couple of hours to calm down before we could attempt to go back to bed.
Before departing, the deputy complemented me on my Liberty safe in the basement and we talked a good ten minutes on what could have caused a motion detector false alarm and crime statistics in my county, etc. before he left. A good guy!
Lessons learned: While I am fortunate this was a false alarm and grateful for such, what if it was the real thing?
After the deputy departed, one of my first thoughts was, I need to get me a good alert / guard dog. But in retrospect that might not be a good thing. I had a good alert dog at my previous residence but has since passed away from old age. We had the same ADP alarm system and my wife burnt something in the oven and set off the smoke alarm. The dog went crazy yelping and running around from the high pitch loud noise. Seems to me that would be one more distraction to deal with in an emergency?
The shotgun is too unwieldy for me to use indoors with the configuration of my home. Guess I’ll put it back in the safe as it is a better outdoor defense gun, and I don’t “plan” on checking out or confronting anyone outdoors at night.
I have a phone jack in the bedroom. I need to get a hard line phone for it today because that’s the number the police will call upon arrival, the telephone number of your alarm system the ADP people give the police.
I have a set of electronic earmuffs in my range bag. I’m going to put them next to my home defense pistol. I wonder if they will muffle the ear piercing alarm? With the alarm off they do enhance your hearing significantly, which is an advantage.
Most importantly, I need to get some training and work on my mind set. Instead of trembling hands, I should have been pissed someone has the balls to break into my home.
For me anyway, seems my best laid plans went out the window when that alarm went off! It also a different story when it’s daytime and you’re prepared, alert and condition yellow compared to at your most vulnerable, asleep in bed.
Sorry about being long winded.
I think, therefore I am...
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