Unarmed mugger goes for my gun; justified to shoot?

This is a discussion on Unarmed mugger goes for my gun; justified to shoot? within the Home (And Away From Home) Defense Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; If the assailant has already decided to use physical force to attempt to press his intentions upon me, then I am already justified to defend ...

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Thread: Unarmed mugger goes for my gun; justified to shoot?

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    If the assailant has already decided to use physical force to attempt to press his intentions upon me, then I am already justified to defend myself against that (mugging) threat. I cannot be reasonably expected to meter my response against the unknowable levels of his mental stability, self-control or desperation. If he further elevates his assault by going for my gun, it then becomes reasonable to believe that his willingness to use deadly force against me is clear & obvious. When presented with the clear & obvious threat of deadly violence I am more than justified to respond with equal force. Nothing that I see in your scenario would prompt an LEO or Grand Jury to suspect I went for a jog in the park with any intent to kill a "dirtbag mugger". I simply defended myself against a mugging that elevated into a life-threatening (gun grab) assault. BTY, since when is a mugging seen as such a low-level crime? If he had his hand in his pocket & postured as if he had a gun, would you feel any more justified in the shooting?
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

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  3. #17
    Member Array finnman1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost tracker View Post
    If he had his hand in his pocket & postured as if he had a gun, would you feel any more justified in the shooting?
    If that was the case, then I would probably **** my pants a few times, then redirect the line of fire and draw n shoot from the hip.

    Very thoughtful and personal replies everyone! I think the concensus here is that most would much rather be tried by 12, than carried by 6; and I agree. Maybe I am misinterpreting a few posts, but I do not believe that a fist fight should be settled with a gun, however.

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by finnman1 View Post
    If that was the case, then I would probably **** my pants a few times, then redirect the line of fire and draw n shoot from the hip.

    Very thoughtful and personal replies everyone! I think the concensus here is that most would much rather be tried by 12, than carried by 6; and I agree. Maybe I am misinterpreting a few posts, but I do not believe that a fist fight should be settled with a gun, however.
    Probably a thread hijacking but since you brought it up. I agree if it is a mutual fight willing entered into by both parties. On the other hand, should you be prevented from using a weapon to protect yourself from an unwanted attack because your attacker is using his fist? In effect allowing the attacker to not only decide when and where to attack but also to choose how the fight will be fought.

    Michael

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by finnman1 View Post
    ...but I do not believe that a fist fight should be settled with a gun, however.
    When I was a schoolyard pup I was pretty sure that any fist fight was gonna' be over by the time recess ended. The real word doesn't have recess or even time-out. So I can no longer enjoy the liberty of that assurance. As an adult, I am not going to wait & see if a fist fight might possibly elevate into a hospital visit or a l-o-n-g dirt nap. My right to self-protection means DISABLING the perceived threat. You can fistfight if you want. I'm gonna' avail myself EVERY POSSIBLE way to avoid/stop being struck with anything more dangerous than a...water balloon. IMHO, be very cautious when approaching concealed carry with a Hollywood, fair-play mindset. Chuck Norris is an...actor.
    BenGoodLuck likes this.
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  6. #20
    Member Array tricolordad's Avatar
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    Do you plan on using a retention holster? A good retention holster, situational awareness and training for these scenarios can make all the difference.
    Secret Spuk likes this.

  7. #21
    Ex Member Array bmglock23's Avatar
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    I've pondered this situation myself many times and for the purpose of preparedness the plan I've come up with is to use my weapon as a deterrent before pulling the trigger is required. If you have the gun on the mugger and he attacks anyway, you'll be explaining that to a jury one day ... "I had to shoot, he charged me!" and hope they believe you, just as GZ hopes the jury believes him one day. But for me, and I know there's a lot of different opinion on the matter, but I'd only shoot as a last resort to save my or somebody's life. And not because I'm such a nice guy but because I don't want to buy some mouthbag a new yacht.

  8. #22
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    Know your state's laws but my rule of thumb is that if I'm in fear for my life, I will defend myself and stop the threat.
    Ben

    Cogito, ergo armatum sum. I think, therefore I am armed. (Don Mann, The Modern Day Gunslinger; the ultimate handgun training manual)


  9. #23
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    These days, should one turn the other cheek, as the saying goes, the BG will smack that one too.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    You should use every tactic/angle available to you. Never disregard factors like the physical disability you alluded to; it changes the whole ballgame. It could mean the difference btwn having to defend yourself to a jury and the DA not filing charges at all.

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmglock23 View Post
    ...you have the gun on the mugger and he attacks anyway...
    Then you have even MORE justification to shoot him. Because if he presses his attack while you're holding a gun on him, he's no longer just a mugger. He's a...deranged, nut case, possible meth-head mugger. Yes, shooting is a last resort. But if a guy represents enough of a threat to cause me to draw my weapon, then my "last resort" is only about 5 lbs. of trigger-pull away. I am NOT going to negotiate with an attacking maniac. I am going to kill him.
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  12. #26
    Member Array pfries's Avatar
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    I would like to add that I deliberated over this for a good while; the thing that kept coming back to me was this;

    In my civilian life I decided to carry as an extra measure to protect myself and my family, in coming to that consideration I had weighed many factors carefully.
    I realized that it was a very real possibility if and when I determined it was necessary to utilize my weapon in self-defense, that not everyone’s opinion of
    the situation would be the same as mine. Looking from the outside in things can appear very different.

    With this in consideration I chose to be armed, the short end of it;
    To protect myself and/or my family as long as I believe the use was justified I will stand and fight for it.

    This is not to say one should not be aware of state and or local statutes governing self-defense,
    but that one should always be willing to stand behind their actions even in the gravest of extremes.
    Mors est libertas


    MALAD JUSTED

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Depends. There is a high profile case currently here in FL where a person has claimed the person he shot attacked him and was going for his gun. I guess we will see how that turns out.

    Now, in Virginia, I studied case law sent to me by our local DA and in one case a man had a gun, was holding another guy's wife by the neck and fired the gun beside her head (her husband had thought he shot his wife in the head). The man wrestled the gunman to the ground and in the course of the fight he took the gun away from the gunman and then shot him with it. As it turned out for him, he was found guilty of 2nd degree murder. The reason was that once he took the gun away from the gunman, he was no longer a threat and therefore shooting him was murder.

    These are details that prosecuting attornies get to disect after the fact, unlike you who is in the heat of the moment, adrenaline, fear, etc. Can you imagine a man assaulting your wife, choking her, firing a shot that you think hit her, and then getting into a physical altercation with the man. Would you have the presence of mind to NOT shoot the man if you got the gun away from him in the heat of the moment, fear, adrenaline??? Who knows.
    Secret Spuk likes this.
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  14. #28
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
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    Thread is similar top another one running. LOL My opinions make me not so popular on that one. Can you shoot someone for trying to steal your gun?... NO! Can you shoot someone for trying to wrest your gun from your hand? Maybe. Can you shoot someone who has taken your gun? Probably yes... As long as he's not running away.

    These are my own opinions. Not legal advice

  15. #29
    Member Array badge70's Avatar
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    And how was it this individual got in close enough to reach for your sidearm? Because he wouldn't get in close enough on me - if he was up in my sh**, he'd have a muzzle pointed at his gut.

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    ... The man wrestled the gunman to the ground and in the course of the fight he took the gun away from the gunman and then shot him with it. As it turned out for him, he was found guilty of 2nd degree murder. The reason was that once he took the gun away from the gunman, he was no longer a threat and therefore shooting him was murder....
    I'm betting he ran his mouth before talking to a good lawyer.

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