Guns and Kids, what do you do?
This is a discussion on Guns and Kids, what do you do? within the Home (And Away From Home) Defense Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I will prob get all kind of finger pointing but ..... My xds is in my drawer with the mag in it but not chambered. ...
September 19th, 2012 10:53 PM
I will prob get all kind of finger pointing but ..... My xds is in my drawer with the mag in it but not chambered. I also have another xd mounted to the side of the bed with the mag in it but not chambered. My 8 y/o can not chamber the weapon. To stiff. My 2 y/o for sure cant rack the slide. Now with this said my older kiddos both 13 and 8 know about weapons and respect them. They always ask questions about proper handling and I show them how to handle a weapon. Notice I said how to handle it. Not shoot. First step is to respect the gun. Shooting will come later.
It is never to early to start showing them and explaining to them about guns. My 2 y/o knows it is a " no no ". That's what he calls it because that what I told him it is.
We just bought my wife a lc9. While in the gun store he was talking to the clerk and pointing to the gun case saying " no no " and shaking his head no. I think proper education and developing a respect for firearms are key in firearm safety with kids.
Now obviously when I see that they can work the gun. Trigger guards go on.
Just my own .2 cents
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September 19th, 2012 11:30 PM
With kids in the home, you need two layers of protection...education AND a safe. Anything else is irresponsible (no, I don't care that "my pappy kept a loaded gun in the corner when we were little and no kids got hurt." We didn't have seat belts back then either, and we now realize how stupid that was. Kids are kids. Hence, two layers of protection.)
We have two young kids in the home, and we use a GunVault Deluxe. It has 4 buttons on top. I added white duct tape below the buttons. Even in faint light (like from the clock radio), it is easy to see them. You can also feel them in total darkness.
The safe plugs into an outlet, but also has battery backup. In addition, it has a key. It chirps when the batteries get low.
I do not like simplex mechanical locks, because you need to reset them if you enter an incorrect code. If someone bumps a button, you need to clear the lock before you enter your combination.
I do not trust biometric fingerprint readers to work with wet fingers.
This safe is large enough for three LCPs on the top shelf; and a Glock 19 (with weapon light) and a LCR on the bottom shelf. We keep it next to the bed.
It also keeps the key to the lockable steel gun cabinet in the corner of our bedroom, which keeps my other handguns and long guns.
Since you were in the military as well, you should be used to going from deep sleep to "red alert" fairly quickly. I would not worry about not being able to open the safe under stress. Practice, and you'll be fine.
Hope this helps. Good luck!
The number of people killed because they didn't have "enough gun" is dwarfed by those who had none at all.
September 19th, 2012 11:41 PM
Thanks for the input. Which GunVault Deluxe do you have, there are several. I don't see on the webpage where it mentions that it plugs into the wall, only about the battery power. I'll have to read more carefully.
Originally Posted by 10thmtn
Also, my brother is about to go to the 10th MTN as an FA 2LT, going to Drum if I remember correctly. Any advice to him?
September 19th, 2012 11:55 PM
Ours is older, but it looks to be like the GV2000D model "multivault deluxe."
Ahhh...Ft Drum. Where there are only two seasons - Independence Day, and Winter.
Advice? Get a snow blower, shovels...and beware the snow pigs!
The number of people killed because they didn't have "enough gun" is dwarfed by those who had none at all.
September 20th, 2012 12:03 AM
I dont claim to be an expert on kids but I have some experience. The parents keeping their guns up high know what they are doing, Ive seen it mentioned not to keep ladders around. I just want to emphasize this. Children, even at young ages are very smart. A freinds kid (4 at the time) had no trouble with deadbolts on doors but he also had no hesitation to pull a chair up and go for the lock we installed high up on the door. Eventualy we had to install a battery operated alarm on the door.
"The thing about quotes on the internet is that you can not confirm their validity."
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky. dangerous animals."
September 20th, 2012 11:29 AM
A key lock is useless in the dark. Google "Gunvault Problems" and you will see the issues people have are across the board on many models. There are several recent videos showing how easy most of the inexpensive electronic handgun safes can be opened, but that's more of an issue with older kids or thieves. If you want to stay away from electronics all together, it's hard to beat a push-button mechanical lock as it is easily opened by feel in complete darkness. As with anything a little practice and it's second nature to you. As mentioned earlier, if you need to clear an incorrect code you just turn the knob 1/4" counterclockwise and re-pounch the code. Takes about 1/2 second to clear if a mistake is made. You should be able to open it and have your gun in 3 or 4 seconds in the dark. If that's not fast enough for you, then you need to look at what other security you can improve in your home. No batteries, scanners, electricity or flimsey sheetmetal. Holstered, so the trigger is never exposed when reaching for your gun and it is presented to you in the same place evey time. Other manufacturers that use a similar lock are Vline and Fort Knox with lighter gauge boxes that you lay your gun in. I commend you in your efforts to find what's right for you and will help keep your kids safe. Hiding a gun up high is just waiting for something bad to happen in my opinion.
September 20th, 2012 12:04 PM
First- Lock your bedroom door!
If you are concerned about little ones wondering into your room in the middle of the night, LOCK the door!
(As soon as our kids moved to their own rooms, my wife & I began closing & locking our bedroom door. A baby monitor helped us keep tabs of things.)
Get a bedside safe. There are many to choose from; so I know you can find one that will suit your needs. (You can mount one inside a draw & "childproof the drawer.)
Since you are a "good" sleeper, you may need a early warning system of some kind. Install an Alarm System and/or get a dog. Both will give you a little extra time in the event of an emergency.
September 20th, 2012 12:53 PM
Thank you for the suggestions. As far as locking the door, my wife enjoys having my son in the bedroom in the morning, so that's not going to work. She's a stay at home mom, and I work crazy hours, so many times she is trying to sneak in a few extra minutes of sleep with my son in the bed and I'm still out like a light.
Originally Posted by tcox4freedom
I'm fairly convinced that a bed side safe is the way to go, just wondering which safe is going to best suit me. What safe do you recommend? Does anyone know a good safe that charges while plugged in and has a battery backup?
As far as your third suggestion, I have 3 dogs, all large. They stay outside, but bark if anything is amiss in the night.
September 20th, 2012 01:26 PM
I'm in the same boat, 2 very young kids. Education and a safe are your best bets. I have a safe mounted high on a shelf, in a closet next to my side of the bed. It has an electronic keypad and an override backup key. More for keeping little hands out rather than thieves, like many have mentioned. Also have a med-large sized dog to buy extra time and provide a warning. I'm a light sleeper though, and have thought about a bedside holster to utilize while I'm home. Most importantly in all this, my kids have been educated about guns, Dads closet is a no-no, and understand that dead is forever...guns aren't toys. The other side of that is to not make it seem so taboo..they also understand why I have them. My son says, "because you love us and want to protect us if a bad guy comes."
Sounds like your headed down the right road. Get a safe, educate, and listen for the pups!
'Fortes Fortuna Juvat'
“The Second Amendment is timeless for our Founders grasped that self-defense is three-fold: every free individual must protect themselves against the evil will of the man, the mob and the state.”
― Tiffany Madison
September 21st, 2012 12:49 PM
Just my two cents. I have two 3 year old boys, a 1.5 year old little girl, and a Mossberg 500. I have a low bed and keep the shotgun right under where I sleep. Unfortunately I can't feel comfortable keeping it loaded and ready for "go-time." I do have a saddle for my shells on the weapon for atleast a fighting chance for quick loading. I think Kathy Jackson on CorneredCat.com gives some of the best advice for dealing with children and firearms. My biggest success has been taking the allure out of the weapon for the children. The boys are three and already understand what it means when I check with my fingers and eyes to see if the weapon is loaded before I present it to them to explore. They are more afraid than curious now because I've let them see me shoot it (At evil dogs and such) and know what the end result of pulling the trigger is. When they are curious I take the time to let them see me check the chamber numerous times for safety and hold it while I let them touch it (Pointing it at a safe backstop of course). Does it guarantee 100% that no accident will happen? Certainly not, which is why I don't keep it loaded and don't let the kids in my room. However, the old saying, "The best safety is the one between your ears," is true and should be installed between the ears of your little ones even if you aren't sure whether or not they understand. Psychologists say that children are pretty much cemented into who they are going to be by age 7, so the best time to start ingraining gun safety is right NOW. It's not fool proof, but it's the best strategy.
September 21st, 2012 12:55 PM
Great post. You've obviously thought a lot about this and you demonstrate clear thinking and a desire to problem solve. My two pieces of advice are:
1. Always carry when around the kids. Use a holster with some kind of retention. This should accomplish several things: first, they will get used to seeing you carrying a gun; second, the gun will always be under your control.
2. If you can't carry, or when you are asleep, put the gun in a safe with a touch code so you can have fast access to it if necessary.
ellCogito, ergo armatum sum. I think, therefore I am armed. (Don Mann, The Modern Day Gunslinger; the ultimate handgun training manual)
September 21st, 2012 02:36 PM
For heavy sleepers
For heavy sleepers,
I keep my bedroom door open so I can hear what's going on in the rest of the house. This is especially important if you have kids in the house.
In addition to any combination of suggestions made here...
put an infrared beam annunciator (old school) or motion detector annunciator, across the door of your bedroom. A 'beam' unit can isolate the field of view so that a dog won't trigger it (when mounted high enough) but a child (taller than the dog) will. I was thinking old school units that bounce off a reflector but this newer version came up on google. http://www.mouser.com/catalog/specsh...co_EBP-401.pdf
If there is no dog then this will do and is cheaper to boot. Personal Security Motion Sensing Alarm with Keypad Activation-51209 at The Home Depot
There are simpler units with no keypad, this is just what I found quick as get ready for work. You can also get these units in remote configurations to set boundaries anywhere in the house you wish. Happy hunting.
...he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36
USN/VET; NRA; GOA, jpfo.org
Life in a Jar: The Irena Sendler Project www.irenasendler.com
September 21st, 2012 10:49 PM
I have a nine yr old boy who shoots with me, and a 6 yr old girl who will be starting this year. when they were younger they used to bug me to see all my guns. i used to say no. then one day while conversing with someone at the range , they told me to just show them, let them handle them (unloaded of course) and they won't be so curious. it worked. i gave them all a safety lesson. all the do's and don'ts. And after that, all the mystery and curiosity was gone. Now my son loves to shoot with me, but he and my daughter couldn't care less about seeing, touching or handling them. Unless we're at the range. Take the mystery out of firearms along with education is the key. All of this said, my pistols are in a Gun Vault next to my bed. My rifles are in locked cases under the bed, with ammo in the safe.
S&W M&P 9c
Stag Arms 2T
"Your freedom to be you includes my freedom to be free from you"
"CAPITALISM IS BOSS" Andrew Wilkow
September 22nd, 2012 10:27 AM
You could always keep the guns, and sell the kids! J/K
Seriously though, having kids requires life changes and compromises. When not on you, keep your handgun locked is an easily accessible (to you) safe. The one pgrass101 suggested would a good choice. For nighttime protection a shotgun would be a good option. A semi auto magazine fed would work well. You could leave the magazine loaded and removed. Stored in the same type safe mentioned before. Unfortunately there is no perfect solution.
Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.
NRA Life Member
September 22nd, 2012 07:09 PM
Thank you all for the insight and advice. I have to admit, while the army has made me weapons smart, I don't know much about the widgets and gadgets on the civilian side. Your collective expertise is invaluable.
Is everyone adverse to the biometric safes? Are there reliable ones, or am I barking up the wrong tree?
I'm trying to figure out if the aversion to the new technology is due to faults in the technology or because of the mentality, "I've always done it this way and its the best way."
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