Confrontation in Durham, NC today.

This is a discussion on Confrontation in Durham, NC today. within the Home (And Away From Home) Defense Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; For future reference: Holstering your weapon is one thing. Griping your weapon while in an argument can be construed (misconstrued) as "Brandishing" in NC. You ...

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Thread: Confrontation in Durham, NC today.

  1. #46
    Member Array DaGunny's Avatar
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    For future reference: Holstering your weapon is one thing. Griping your weapon while in an argument can be construed (misconstrued) as "Brandishing" in NC. You should have called 911 immediately to report the incident. Based on your 2 posts, I am assuming that you stayed engaged with the guy until your GF was safe in your car?
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  3. #47
    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    I would suggest that you need to work on your people skills. I would add that there is no reason to be rude to people just because they are indigent or look creepy. Not all of them are there of there own choosing. Many of these people we see on the street are trying to hold on to a shred of their self-respect and can be easily pushed over the line from hope to despair and anger. A simple "Sorry, I'm rushed", or "I can't talk right now" will get your point across without the air of disdain that it sounds like you conveyed. If you can control the situation with words and body language you will be less likely to need more violent measures.

    The saying, "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet" comes to mind.

  4. #48
    Senior Member Array Bubbiesdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iguanadon View Post
    "criminal protection zone"... I like that term...

    I prefer "victim management area"
    Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
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  5. #49
    Senior Member Array Caertaker's Avatar
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    Being “right” has always meant a great deal to me. Over the years life has put me in positions where it would be better to survive unscathed and be wrong than right. I am slowly learning but apparently a poor student. I can’t imagine finding a more sympathetic group than a pro-gun, pro self-defense forum for the situation you described. Yet when the majority find fault with your actions, a prudent man would take note. I shudder to think what a jury taken from the general population would think had matters turned worse.
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  6. #50
    Senior Member Array Luis50's Avatar
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    This was posted by Tacman a while back but it could be useful to the OP and the rest of us:

    "As a gun owner, you have to be cool-headed, more-so than the police ever have to be. You do not ever run around pretending to be the police while carrying a gun because then, stuff like this can happen. You do not start stuff, act aggressively, flip the bird, roll your eyes, talk smack, or even raise your voice to anyone, ever.

    A combat instructor (who happened to be Buddhist and a Marine) once said to me:
    "From now on, when dealing with (ed.) crazy / possibly violent people, you will lose every argument. You are always wrong. You are sorry for impinging on their day.

    You will apologize and apologize again. You will back the heck down. You will put your tail between your legs. You will let them talk stuff about your lady friend. You will let them call your mother a witch and a hooker, your dad a punk.
    You have no ego. You do all this because if you are the one to start a fight, by default that fight now has a gun in it, and if you start losing, you're going to pull it and kill him.

    Even if you don't go to jail because you could convince the jury that it was self-defense, you're going to have to live with the fact that you took someone's life in defense of your pride and ego not your life.

    You are not the police, so don't act like them. Though many of you [civilians] are better shots than the police, you do not have the training, the continuum of force policy, a union, plus free lawyers protecting you if you screw up.

    In closing he added “After backing down and trying to apologize, if at any time you then feel your life or that of a loved one is in danger, put three rounds into his [cardiothoracic] vault, call the police, call your lawyer, give a statement, go home, and sleep like a baby. You did all you could for your attacker, and he was the one that made the final decision...... to kill himself."
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  7. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luis50 View Post
    This was posted by Tacman a while back but it could be useful to the OP and the rest of us:

    "As a gun owner, you have to be cool-headed, more-so than the police ever have to be. You do not ever run around pretending to be the police while carrying a gun because then, stuff like this can happen. You do not start stuff, act aggressively, flip the bird, roll your eyes, talk smack, or even raise your voice to anyone, ever.

    A combat instructor (who happened to be Buddhist and a Marine) once said to me:
    "From now on, when dealing with (ed.) crazy / possibly violent people, you will lose every argument. You are always wrong. You are sorry for impinging on their day.

    You will apologize and apologize again. You will back the heck down. You will put your tail between your legs. You will let them talk stuff about your lady friend. You will let them call your mother a witch and a hooker, your dad a punk.
    You have no ego. You do all this because if you are the one to start a fight, by default that fight now has a gun in it, and if you start losing, you're going to pull it and kill him.

    Even if you don't go to jail because you could convince the jury that it was self-defense, you're going to have to live with the fact that you took someone's life in defense of your pride and ego not your life.

    You are not the police, so don't act like them. Though many of you [civilians] are better shots than the police, you do not have the training, the continuum of force policy, a union, plus free lawyers protecting you if you screw up.

    In closing he added “After backing down and trying to apologize, if at any time you then feel your life or that of a loved one is in danger, put three rounds into his [cardiothoracic] vault, call the police, call your lawyer, give a statement, go home, and sleep like a baby. You did all you could for your attacker, and he was the one that made the final decision...... to kill himself."
    I might need to print that off and read it every day. Great advice!
    Don't bring a knife to a gun fight...unless it's strapped to a gun.

  8. #52
    Member Array nazshooter's Avatar
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    Re: Confrontation in Durham, NC today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I have been asked for money countless times, yet never assaulted. Perhaps it is my demeanor.
    I drive every day and haven't been in an accident. Does this mean I should start taking more chances? While it's true that most panhandlers are not robbers it's also true that some robbers use the same technique in order to get close to the victim.

    Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

  9. #53
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    Re: Confrontation in Durham, NC today.

    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    It was an empty threat and the BG(?) said he had no gun.
    And if he had then remembered the screwdriver in his back pocket?

    Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

  10. #54
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nazshooter View Post
    And if he had then remembered the screwdriver in his back pocket?
    If we're now down to introducing imagined scenarios that aren't in the OP, what if the vagrant was blind but had a white sword cane and the OP had a attack gorilla on a leash dressed in Kevlar?

    Even with the provided details, we can't all agree if even Pepper Spray was justified. Start throwing-in a screwdriver and the equation becomes completely unsolvable. Except, of course, the most obvious solution. Retreat to the safe confines of a locked car & call 911. If the threat is THAT clear, any action beyond that seems (IMHO) less-than-wise.
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  11. #55
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nazshooter View Post
    And if he had then remembered the screwdriver in his back pocket?

    Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
    Please when you quote me put in the full context of the post I did which was in response to another post:

    Actually the only threat to kill the OP was this:
    If I had a gun I would shoot your ass right now".
    It was an empty threat and the BG(?) said he had no gun. If anything it sounded like he wanted suicide by CCP holder Now, I am not minimizing what COULD have happened. But I think he just handled it flat out wrong.
    You can go back and read the post I was replying to. And again, did you miss the part "I am not minimizing what COULD have happened".
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

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  12. #56
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    As you have found out, rudeness sets some people off.
    suntzu and Ksgunner like this.
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  13. #57
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    An armed society is a polite society. The vagrant was clearly imprudent with his repeated taunts and (IMHO) the OP was imprudent by his inflexible engagement with a raving street-dweller. Fair Play, Right & Wrong and Honor were all tilted heavily toward to OP in this scenario. Yet, in all matters of modern concealed carry, discretion is especially the better part of valor.
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  14. #58
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    WE can read a lot of things into what the person may have intended..... the bottom line is , he has an unknown person who has approached HIM at night in a parking lot, who's now making threats ... and he doesn't know one way or the other if the guy means it or has the means to do it, ............. and wanted to be able to protect himself ..... and as he was standing by his car reached back into the car and put his gun into the holster on his hip.

    Now, I can see no issues with any of those things, nor the OP's actions..... because he has no clue what this person may or may not do next. So, where is the issue with what the OP did ?
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  15. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost tracker View Post
    An armed society is a polite society.
    Heinlein had some real gems.
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  16. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by nazshooter View Post
    I drive every day and haven't been in an accident. Does this mean I should start taking more chances? While it's true that most panhandlers are not robbers it's also true that some robbers use the same technique in order to get close to the victim.

    Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
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