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AR15 for home defense

This is a discussion on AR15 for home defense within the Home (And Away From Home) Defense Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by atctimmy 1) It is a proven fact, backed up by many, many tests that the 55 grain bullets tend to yaw and ...

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  1. #31
    Member Array Scout_Sniper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    1) It is a proven fact, backed up by many, many tests that the 55 grain bullets tend to yaw and fragment when they hit something. This drastically reduces the chance of over penetration. The OTM rounds have a hollow cavity in the front of the bullet that collapses on impact and increases yaw and fragmentation even more. These rounds, though heavier, leave devastating wound channels but don't over penetrate when they hit things like drywall and 2X4s.

    2) You are wrong again. A 5.56 is not a "high powered rifle". "High powered rifles" are full size battle rifles chambered for 7.62X51, 30-06, 7.62X54R or similar. AR15s by definition are chambered for an intermediate sized round. A round designed for less recoil and less power. They were specifically designed to bridge the gap between a pistol caliber submachinegun and a full sized battle rifle, AKA "high powered rifle" as you put it.

    Sometimes, if you don't know the subject matter, it's best to just be quiet. Otherwise you will spread misinformation.
    It is a high powered rifle IMO. 3000+ FPS and 1000+ ft/lbs.

    OTM rounds will fragment and that's a given, but the other guy said he recommends FMJ rounds for defense...very poor choice.


  2. #32
    Distinguished Member Array Hodad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty901 View Post
    Without arguing all the points of this ,is a good read and should be at least looked at by those new to AR's It is spot on, pretty much to the point and gives you information you should have. One of the major mistakes new AR owners make is not understanding what he has to say. In fact many new soldiers need to lean it after they do they shoot very well.
    Zero Distance for a Home-Defense AR-15 | Shooting Illustrated
    There are now sight systems available for AR's that allow you to use the front sight as your POA and POI taking all the guess work out of the
    equation. I don't know the manufacturer, but I am sure you can google it and find out. Hold over in a stressful home defense situation is just not
    practical for most people.

    Home defense suggestion: Full size .45 or .40 cal handgun with attached weapon light, with access to an AR with attached weapon light.

    Add lasers if you want it can't hurt but a weapon light is a must.
    "Life is tough but it's really tough if you are stupid"

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scout_Sniper View Post
    It is a high powered rifle IMO. 3000+ FPS and 1000+ ft/lbs.

    OTM rounds will fragment and that's a given, but the other guy said he recommends FMJ rounds for defense...very poor choice.
    Get this into your head, it's a FACT that the 55 grain FMJ round fragments and yaws abating over penetration. It's researched, documented and proven fact.

    It is also FACT, not opinion, that a 5.56X45 is by DEFINITION not a "high powered" rifle round. It is, by definition, an intermediate cartridge.

    Intermediate cartridge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    An intermediate cartridge is a military assault rifle cartridge that is less powerful than typical full power battle rifle cartridges such as the 7.62x54mm Rimmed, UK .303 or US .30-06 Springfield, but still significantly more powerful than pistol cartridges.[1] As their recoil is significantly reduced compared to high power rifle cartridges, fully automatic rifles firing intermediate cartridges are relatively easy to control. However, even though less powerful than a traditional rifle cartridge, the ballistics are still sufficient for an effective range of 250–500 metres (270–550 yd), which are the maximum typical engagement ranges in combat. This allowed for the development of the assault rifle concept, which is a selective fire weapon that is more compact and lighter than rifles firing full power cartridges. The first intermediate cartridge to see widespread service was the German 7.92x33mm Kurz.[1] Other examples include the Soviet 7.62x39mm used in the AK-47 and AKM series, and the .280 British round developed for the EM-2. The 5.56x45mm NATO cartridge is also an intermediate cartridge.
    Do your homework. Your opinion means nothing, it's facts that count.
    zacii, Rob99VMI04 and CJM like this.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  4. #34
    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scout_Sniper View Post
    It is a high powered rifle IMO. 3000+ FPS and 1000+ ft/lbs.

    OTM rounds will fragment and that's a given, but the other guy said he recommends FMJ rounds for defense...very poor choice.
    I would listen to ATCtimmy.........

    Anything that can reach vital organs, fragment creating secondary missiles, and turn temporary stretch cavities into permanent crush cavities technically is a very good self defense option. While there have been talk about the bad performance of the 5.56 there are also folks that have also used it and it has performed very well. Typical human behavior though is to only report the bad, and never say anything that is good!
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoBigOrange View Post
    I have zero interest in using my AR for home defense. I can't even imagine how loud it would be inside my apartment. I'll stick with my Glock 23 and shotgun as a backup.
    I can't imagine your shotgun being any quieter than an AR. I'm saving pennies right now for a threaded barrel and suppressor for my HD pistol. I'm already half deaf from years of loud rock music and shooting.
    "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." ~ P. J. O'Rourke

  6. #36
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    All I was doing was pointing out a good article on the aiming and use of 1 option for HD. Not trying to change anyone's mind .
    Improper use of sites is a big problem with AR's

  7. #37
    CJM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scout_Sniper View Post
    It is a high powered rifle IMO. 3000+ FPS and 1000+ ft/lbs.
    In my opinion, fire is cold, ice is hot, water is dry, Obama is a great president, Joe Biden is smart, and Diane Feinstein is smokin' hot. IMO, and you know what they say about opinions.....
    "Thank you for the advice Mr. Vice President, but I'll be keeping my AR15 for defending my home and family."

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    Get this into your head, it's a FACT that the 55 grain FMJ round fragments and yaws abating over penetration. It's researched, documented and proven fact.

    It is also FACT, not opinion, that a 5.56X45 is by DEFINITION not a "high powered" rifle round. It is, by definition, an intermediate cartridge.

    Intermediate cartridge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Do your homework. Your opinion means nothing, it's facts that count.
    If its on Wikipedia, it must be a fact...

    "Your opinion means nothing" made me lollerz

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJM View Post
    In my opinion, fire is cold, ice is hot, water is dry, Obama is a great president, Joe Biden is smart, and Diane Feinstein is smokin' hot. IMO, and you know what they say about opinions.....
    You are entitled to that opinion if that's the way you feel. It's not my place to say that your opinion doesn't matter

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scout_Sniper View Post
    If its on Wikipedia, it must be a fact...

    "Your opinion means nothing" made me lollerz
    Opinions count when we are talking about taste in food, beer, women. Opinions count when we are talking about your favorite deer hunting cartridge or what handgun you like to carry. Opinions count when we are talking about our favorite sports teams.

    When it comes to 5.56X45 you are spreading disinformation. That's what I'm trying to tell you. I am telling you proven facts. Are you listening?
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  11. #41
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    AR15 for home defense

    I have my 1911 and P238 for HD with my AR15 as back up with 55gr FMJs
    "The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose."

    -James Earl Jones


  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob99VMI04 View Post
    I would listen to ATCtimmy.........

    Anything that can reach vital organs, fragment creating secondary missiles, and turn temporary stretch cavities into permanent crush cavities technically is a very good self defense option. While there have been talk about the bad performance of the 5.56 there are also folks that have also used it and it has performed very well. Typical human behavior though is to only report the bad, and never say anything that is good!
    Each fragment which separates from the main projectile has the ability and increased likelihood of severing, tearing and/or puncturing a greater number of blood vessels. The larger, and sharper the chunks of bullet jacket or whatever, that goes zipping through the body at acute angles, the better.

    The fragments do not need to have a lot of power/mass in order to open up and damage a blood vessel. They do not have to damage hard bone or solid organs. Their "job" is to rip open as many blood vessels as possible in order to dump as much blood from the circulatory system.

    Short of taking out a person's central nervous system (brain or spinal cord), massive and rapid blood loss is the second quickest mechanism of stopping an aggressor by initiating hemorrhagic shock as rapidly as possible. Small bullet fragments which break off from the main round does this quite well.
    atctimmy likes this.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    Opinions count when we are talking about taste in food, beer, women. Opinions count when we are talking about your favorite deer hunting cartridge or what handgun you like to carry. Opinions count when we are talking about our favorite sports teams.

    When it comes to 5.56X45 you are spreading disinformation. That's what I'm trying to tell you. I am telling you proven facts. Are you listening?
    When did Wikipedia become proven facts? You could have written that article and I can go back and edit to say its wrong.

  14. #44
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    Funny thing about facts, you can find them in many, many places. If you don't like the wikipedia article (which is fully correct) then maybe you'd rather read this:
    ASSAULT RIFLES AND THEIR AMMUNITION:

    After World War 2 it was decided that we didn't need full powered battle rifles because the engagement distance just wasn't that far. They decided that the ideal would be something between a pistol round and a rifle round. When the M14 began to show weakness this was remembered and the next rifle fired an intermediate cartridge.
    atctimmy, Bark'n and pgrass101 like this.
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scout_Sniper View Post
    When did Wikipedia become proven facts? You could have written that article and I can go back and edit to say its wrong.
    Wikipedia comes up in the top two in just about every Google search. It's easy to find and easy to link. Oh, and Wikipedia isn't always wrong.

    Do you really want more links? Or are you just busting my chops? If you actually want to learn about the history about this stuff then you can start by Googling the STG 44 and the7.92mm Kurz round.


    ETA: I was reading Echo Four's link and it is full of information. Check out the first British assault rifle that was fielded briefly before the US made the push for the 7.62X51 as the standard NATO round. It kind of looks like a toy. It was chambered for the 7x43 cartridge that was just too far ahead of it's time.

    http://www.historyofwar.org/Pictures...ield_em-2.html
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

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