OC vs brandishing at your door

This is a discussion on OC vs brandishing at your door within the Home (And Away From Home) Defense Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Sorry if this has been answered, a search for open carry and brandishing turned up a lot of results. Lets say you have a salesman ...

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Thread: OC vs brandishing at your door

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    Member Array QuasarZ's Avatar
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    OC vs brandishing at your door

    Sorry if this has been answered, a search for open carry and brandishing turned up a lot of results.

    Lets say you have a salesman come to your door and you are open carrying, how does that differ from brandishing? What if you rest your hand on it while talking? (Telling to leave)

    Please be gentle, I am new to all of this.
    Thanks

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    Member Array Drgnfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuasarZ View Post
    What if you rest your hand on it while talking? (Telling to leave)
    Wouldn't do that....

    That's all I'm gonna say.

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    Member Array Crestwood1001's Avatar
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    OC vs brandishing at your door

    REALLY wouldn't put your hand on that gun unless you plan on using it. That is NOT how you tell them to leave.


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    VIP Member Array high pockets's Avatar
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    Check out Handgunlaw.us, you may find an answer there. The definition of brandishing varies by state.

    I think OC at your own door would not be an issue, but putting your hand on it could be an entirely different matter.

    As always - I Am Not A Lawyer (IANAL)
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    Member Array Brent2006's Avatar
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    Have to agree with the other posts. Nothing wrong with open carrying in your own home (at least in my state) but I teach don't even touch your gun unless your life or your loved ones life is in grave danger. I know a Sheriff who would get so mad if his deputies put their hands on their guns in non threatening situations.

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    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuasarZ View Post
    Let's say you have a salesman come to your door...
    Don't open the door!

    Quote Originally Posted by high pockets View Post
    The definition of brandishing varies by state.
    True. Many states, like mine, don't have the word "brandish" in the statutes, but in those states that do, most likely a holstered gun is not included in the definition. Grabbing your gun, even a holstered gun, is felonious menacing in my state, and probably a similar offense in others.

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    Member Array gooseman1991's Avatar
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    If you are in your own home and open carry out of habit then I don't see how there is anything wrong with that. Putting your hand on the gun and insisting the salesman leave does not seem at all appropriate, actually it seems like a threat to a man who is just doing his job and the only thing he has done to you is possibly annoy you. Not a good idea.

    Goose
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    Member Array Nebraska12's Avatar
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    Yea, read the local laws. As others have stated, they vary from state to state. Why put your hand on your gun to tell a salesmen to leave? Why not a "no thank you"? Even say it a few different times to get through his sales tactic. When I'm done listening, I usually say "No thanks, I'm really not interested and I'd hate to waste your time." This usually gets the point across and they leave without issue. Generally, even salesmen are just trying to earn a living.
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    Many times people such as peace officers can make a habit out of resting their hands on objects worn on the belt. It is both tactical and kinda natural, like folding your arms. I do this all the time without even thinking. Now, I'm not assuming a firing grip on the piece, but the heel of my hand may be resting on the front edge of the holster, and the left resting on the OC pouch.

    But to intentional place your hand on the piece like you are going to break leather with menacing expressions and voice tones is a different story.

    If you don't know them, just don't open the door.

    Another good reason for a j frame in your pocket if you are compelled to open it.
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    VIP Member Array 1MoreGoodGuy's Avatar
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    Why don't you just hang a small sign next to the doorbell that reads "No Solicitors".
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuasarZ View Post
    Lets say you have a salesman come to your door and you are open carrying, how does that differ from brandishing?
    Mere carrying isn't brandishing, which is a distinct and overt act of displaying/waving to unjustifiably intimidate, menace or threaten another. Though, the non-standard definitions used by some states do indeed differ from the normal, everyday definition of the word.

    As to whether it'll be taken as such in your own state, know your state's statutes, and appreciate the case law's interpretations of such situations. It's not always straightforward.

    What if you rest your hand on it while talking? (Telling to leave)
    If there's no threat that provoked legitimate concern by the carrier, then I'd say such an action would be unjustified and absolutely qualifies as brandishing/menacing. Depends on the specific circumstances, what threat is being created by the person, what steps the carrier is taking to defend against the threat, and whether those actions are reasonable.

    Now, every situation's different. If a person has stepped up to the door to inquire about possible interest in buying something, that's hardly a threat. If that person fails to "get the point" and realize I'm wanting him to leave without a sale, then that's merely his lack of mental quickness and/or stubbornness. But unless it goes beyond mere reticence to leave, if it goes to the point where the visitor's actions get disconcerting to the point I'm legitimately fearing violence is coming, then that's where everything begins to change. It'll all come down to the specifics.

    If "new" to all of this, appreciate the use of the word "reasonable" in the use-of-force statutes. It's important to realize that can believe all you want at the time, but in order for others to later deem those actions credible and justifiable then those actions need to be seen as reasonable in their eyes. IOW, don't simply think you can get everyone to agree you were reasonable by grabbing the butt-end of your gun each time you'd prefer a salesman leave your doorstep, for no other reason that you no longer wanted to speak to the guy.
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    Member Array QuasarZ's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies. By resting a hand on the gun I did not mean using that as a way to leave. Like the post above, like a habit of putting hand on hip, in pocket etc. not as a scare tactic.

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    Member Array QuasarZ's Avatar
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    And I agree to not answer door, or talk through it. I just used that as an example to get my question across about oc vs brandishing. Thanks.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuasarZ View Post
    By resting a hand on the gun I did not mean using that as a way to leave. Like the post above, like a habit of putting hand on hip, in pocket etc. not as a scare tactic.
    Which is fine, so far as that goes. But realize that claims and accusations can be made, whether or not your intention was to intimidate. Something to keep in mind, when in a situation where brandishing/menacing could be misconstrued from otherwise normal actions by you.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1MoreGoodGuy View Post
    Why don't you just hang a small sign next to the doorbell that reads "No Solicitors".
    Signs don't always work, especially in the case of a salesman that isn't too bright. True story (and rather funny IMO)... Several years ago a salesman came into a business owned by my friend's dad. My buddy's dad interrupted his spiel by asking him if he saw the "No Solicitors" sign on the door. The guy's response: "Yeah, I saw it, but I'm not a solicitor. I'm just a peddler."

    Anyway, either don't answer the door or just tell the salesman you're not interested in whatever he is selling. Resting your hand on your gun while talking to them is probably a bad idea that could land you in a heap of trouble depending on whether or not the salesman perceived it as a threat.
    ep1953 likes this.

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