School Security in Israel

This is a discussion on School Security in Israel within the Home (And Away From Home) Defense Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I do believe those are parents of kids who volunteer not actual teachers. Not to mention they enslave their populace and force them to serve. ...

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  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array Toorop's Avatar
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    I do believe those are parents of kids who volunteer not actual teachers. Not to mention they enslave their populace and force them to serve. Big difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toorop View Post
    I do believe those are parents of kids who volunteer not actual teachers. Not to mention they enslave their populace and force them to serve. Big difference.


    ^^^^^^^^If you are reffering ^^^^^^^^

    To the picture in the OP, please substantiate that claim(that she is an enslaved parent of one of the children).
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    It does not seem realistic to suggest that our school teachers be armed. It's a possible move, but given the nature of our students, you're potentially just giving a violent student access to a gun.

    But what about armed security for schools? We can afford teachers and staff. We can afford an armed guard (or two, or three) in our schools. In fact, in some districts we already have them. They can't be everywhere but they can be on the scene faster than police responding to a 911 call.

    Universities usually have their own police departments, and while that's too expensive for grammar, middle and high schools, it does point out that schools need some form of security.
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    I think Troorop is meaning what I said in my post "Two years in the IDF" usually from age 18-20. If it is a parent that works for me; I would carry a gun at my son's school on one of my days off; if I had the training most Israeli parants have had. Also; the mindset of the average Israeli is that they live in a warzone. They have had people trying to kill them since the world war 2 gas chaimbers; then in 1949 they got the Arabs.

    Until as another poster said we call this what it is "TERRORISM" will not get anywhere.

    Yes Shockwave; armed security is needed in many schools and yes it needs to be at least three trained persons. The problem is twofold; 1) those who do not believe this will happen and 2) how to pay for it. Are we will to see our taxes increase to pay a three people per school $50,000 plus benefit package. For the town in which I live that would mean about 20 people (3 grade schools; a middle school (currently covered by one LEO) and a High school (also one LEO)). This would be $1,000,000 plus about $250,00 to $500,000 in benefits package (this excludes the monies paid to the two LEOs). Even if the total expense for security was only the $50,000 per person ($1,000,000/yr); How much are we willing to pay for security? Understand I have a child in the middle school, so for me this is not a hypotheical question.

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    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    I saw this pic on another forum. The commentary there (and I agree) is that she isn't providing any meaningful security for the kids. Her attention is focused on whatever they are all looking at. She would be the first target.

    Now, that said, there could very well be other security outside the photo.

    But she ain't it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottM View Post
    I saw this pic on another forum. The commentary there (and I agree) is that she isn't providing any meaningful security for the kids. Her attention is focused on whatever they are all looking at. She would be the first target.

    Now, that said, there could very well be other security outside the photo.

    But she ain't it.
    Perhaps her attention is focused where a threat would most likely come from...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottM View Post
    I saw this pic on another forum. The commentary there (and I agree) is that she isn't providing any meaningful security for the kids. Her attention is focused on whatever they are all looking at. She would be the first target.

    Now, that said, there could very well be other security outside the photo.

    But she ain't it.
    She's better than if she was unarmed! Would you rather she carried the rifle at 'port arms'? The deterrence factor alone is better than being unarmed. I also bet she knows how to use that rifle....compare that to the average school teacher here. I bet most teachers here don't know anything about guns & a large percentage are probably anti-gun.
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    The commentary there (and I agree) is that she isn't providing any meaningful security for the kids. Her attention is focused on whatever they are all looking at.
    Supposition, Sir.

    Here is an article which laws out some cogent FACTS: Massad Ayoob

    After the Ma’alot massacre in 1974, Israel instituted a policy in which volunteer school personnel, parents, and grandparents received special training from the civil guard, and were seeded throughout the schools armed with discreetly concealed 9mm semiautomatic pistols. Since that time, there has been no successful mass murder at an Israeli school, and every attempt at such has been quickly shortstopped by the good guys’ gunfire, with minimal casualties among the innocent. Similar programs are in place in Peru and the Phillippines, with similarly successful results.
    The facts show that the USA "Gun Free Zones" DO NOT WORK and the Israeli Model has been successful since 1974. Your straw arguments, emotional pleas and the like all fly in the face of rational analysis.

    The USA has spent MORE and MORE on education for worse and worse results for the most part. IMHO we should re-allocate 10% minimum of the Administrator/Teachers/Union Steward salaries to security. That would be enough to create some real security instead of "security theater". The NEA and other teachers unions have lobbied and received more and more for less and less, and we as parents, grandparents, relatives and TAXPAYERS DEMAND security and yes, it will be at the expense of their corrupt unions.

    Yes, there are millions of great teachers in this country, but there are millions of inept, incompetent and union protected "teachers" occupying space in classrooms as teachers that should be thrown out and replaced. The funds are there for security. We just need to find the political will to ACT.

  10. #24
    Member Array Jakor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goawayfarm View Post
    She's better than if she was unarmed! Would you rather she carried the rifle at 'port arms'? The deterrence factor alone is better than being unarmed. I also bet she knows how to use that rifle....compare that to the average school teacher here. I bet most teachers here don't know anything about guns & a large percentage are probably anti-gun.
    I wouldn't presume to tell you about your area, but I know three teachers who would start carrying tomorrow if they could, and most could handle a shotgun if necessary. I'm in both catergories.

    'Course, living in Appalachia has it's advantages . . .

    Not all teachers are quaking kneed libs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brady View Post
    Yep, that's off topic.

    All willing teachers and coaches should be armed AND trained. In my area most won't be because they're liberal anti's. The press would have a fit.
    Yet if you offer them a incentive like an extra $1000 a year in their salary for obtaining their CCW permit and carrying at work they will be all over it like a fat kid on a cupcake. Plus their union would probably take credit for getting them an extra grand a year.

    After that don't worry about the media, not a word will be said.
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  12. #26
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    Israel is a good example. Licenses are required, but concealed carry is allowed and even encouraged. Even with all the Palestinian unrest, Israel’s murder rate is only a little higher than Switzerland’s.

    Here's a comparison of how similar events turned out totally different....... In 1984, at a California McDonald’s, a man walked in and killed 21 people and injured 19 before the police were able to bring him down. None of the people inside the store other than the shooter was armed.
    Not long before that, three terrorists opened fire into an Israeli crowd, only killing one before they were themselves gunned down by civilians. The one surviving terrorist later claimed that his group was unaware of the extent of civilian firearm ownership and felt that it was “unfair.”
    In neither case did the shooter(s) care for the laws. The only difference was the presence of weapons in the hands of potential victims.

    Whose model works better?

    From John Lott:
    Up until the early 1970s, Israel had to deal with the cold reality of terrorists who would take machine guns into shopping malls, schools, and Synagogues and open fire. That type of attack doesn’t occur any more. Why? Israelis realized that armed citizens could stop such an attacker before he did much damage.
    About 15 percent of Israelis are now licensed to carry weapons, and determined terrorists have to resort to less effective, secretive routes of attack such as bombing.
    Increasing the probability that someone will be able to protect himself or herself increases deterrence. Even when any single person might have a small probability of having a concealed handgun, the probability that at least someone in the crowd will have a gun is very high.
    There have been a number of attempted public attacks have been stopped by permit holders on streets, at universities, and public schools.
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    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

  13. #27
    New Member Array marineimage's Avatar
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    My daughter is assistant to the principal in a Houston grade school. She has had her CHL for several years and practices on a reasonable basis. However, she has not been through any tactical course. She stated that based on these recent events she would be willing to go through a course and put her life on the line for the children and innocents that work in the school with her. This would be so much better than turning our schools into a prison. They are so close to prisons now that our children hardly blink at being fingerprinted, at being locked in a windowless building behind bars, at being marched like Jewish prisoners toward a shower in a death camp. The framers of our constitution had thousands of years of tyranny from which to layout the statements of freedom we have. The inclusion of the right to bear arms was not an accident.
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  14. #28
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    she would be willing to go through a course and put her life on the line for the children and innocents that work in the school with her
    She already is, whether she recognizes it or not.

    I agree with you.

  15. #29
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  16. #30
    Distinguished Member Array Brady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncsteveh View Post
    Yet if you offer them a incentive like an extra $1000 a year in their salary for obtaining their CCW permit and carrying at work they will be all over it like a fat kid on a cupcake. Plus their union would probably take credit for getting them an extra grand a year.

    After that don't worry about the media, not a word will be said.
    Yep, that just might work!
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