Armed Robbery real scenario - what would you have done?

Recently at our mall here in Virginia, two bad guys tried to rob a Zales jewelry store. Lucky for the innocents, an off-duty state trooper and mall security (who carry batons) was nearby and handled the situation.

If the scenario played out with a CHP holder in place of the trooper, how would you have handled the situation (consider your state laws)?

I *think* I would have reacted with force. Hard to say without being there in the moment. But I believe my action would be to draw, give the verbal command while checking line of fire and if either of the armed suspects begins to aim in my direction, then react. I believe it's IAW Virginia State law. The fact that there are two makes it even more precarious.

News clip: Off duty cop thwarts mall jewelry store robbery - The News Desk

More info:
Jewelry store robbery suspect charged - The News Desk

Hard to say, I am not a police officer, my gun is for my safety and the safety of those with me. Not sure if I would be protected by law in your scene.

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Originally Posted by Ksgunner

Hard to say, I am not a police officer, my gun is for my safety and the safety of those with me. Not sure if I would be protected by law in your scene.

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Exactly. Sometimes we have to remember we weren't deputized, but simply met the necessary state requirements to carry concealed for our personal/family protection if in fear of severe bodily injury or death. If I felt threatened during this robbery attempt, then that's when I'd act if I were able.

Virginia self defense laws specify for defense of others:
IV. DEFENSE OF OTHERS
A Self defense applies to the defense of others.
B. Force used to defend others must be reasonable under the circumstances.
C. Deadly force cannot be used to defend others unless you reasonably fear that the person you are defending is in danger of being killed or suffering great bodily harm.
D. Defense of others is viewed from the mind of the person acting to defend another. When defending another, you must reasonably believe that the person you are defending is a faultless victim of the assault you are defending against.

Were they armed, and if so ,did they display a weapon?

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Were they armed, and if so ,did they display a weapon?

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They called it an armed robbery and suspect was charged with "use of a firearm in the commission of a felony" - so yes, I believe so.

Even more pondering on my part: with the presence of the off-duty state police, I'm wondering if a CHP holder in that scenario who does react (without knowledge of the state police presence) could be in danger of being shot by the officer?

I ask these questions because I could have easily been there. We shop this store routinely and I always carry.

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Originally Posted by MNewkirk

...Even more pondering on my part: with the presence of the off-duty state police, I'm wondering if a CHP holder in that scenario who does react (without knowledge of the state police presence) could be in danger of being shot by the officer?

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This is why often, in addition to my other prayers, I ask that I never be involved in a tight situation like that, and if I am, that the Lord would give me wisdom in how to respond properly.

Wisdom is built over years, usually, so I give joint credit for this prayer being answered to the folks on the forum, who I honestly believe are God's gift to me in order that I might build that wisdom.

Well, most of the folks on this forum, anyway...

Are you a cop? Police officers have a duty/requirement to engage differently than you do. They deal with irate folks daily. I don't. Unless he is a direct threat to me, or folks around me, and I can't get out, which means if he shoots them he might shoot me, I'm leaving. Yes it is selfish, but I carry to protect me, my family, and (some) friends. If you want to intervene in something like that, you need to become a cop. Now, as I said, if they place me in the middle of it, different issue. If confronted by a cop, you could be shot. It is a possibility, but I am not aware of it happening.

To answer the OP's question, though...

If I can't fade out of the area easily, I would probably draw and keep my weapon behind me, or draw and aim at the bad guy, but wait for developments. The clerks are told to be cooperative and the bad guys probably would prefer not to shoot, all things considered. Were I to introduce myself into the situation right away, I worry that my adding to their stress load might tip things to a bad outcome - you know, like them holding the clerk hostage and demanding that I drop my weapon or some such. Maybe that's Hollywood, but since I carry for SELF protection I don't see a screaming need to be a hero. I would prefer to edge quietly out of the store.

If shots are fired or employees are being herded to the back, or if one of the bad guys turns towards me and arm moves up, all bets are off. Probably would take action without speaking. Dunno - again, back to my previous post.

Not that I can afford jewelry. A more realistic scenario for me is someone holding up the Dollar Store.

That's a hard call. For one, it's not my jewelery; and two, Zales has been robbing people for years so it may be Karma at work.

I would have to consider the seriousness of the threat to life and the risks involved.

That's a hard call. For one, it's not my jewelery; and two, Zales has been robbing people for years so it may be Karma at work.

I would have to consider the seriousness of the threat to life and the risks involved.

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Originally Posted by MNewkirk

They called it an armed robbery and suspect was charged with "use of a firearm in the commission of a felony" - so yes, I believe so.

Even more pondering on my part: with the presence of the off-duty state police, I'm wondering if a CHP holder in that scenario who does react (without knowledge of the state police presence) could be in danger of being shot by the officer?

I ask these questions because I could have easily been there. We shop this store routinely and I always carry.

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It could definately put you in danger if the officer wasn't well seasoned and experienced. I don't think I would intervene in a robbery unless I really thought someones life hung in the balance. We are justified in using deadly force to prevent an imminent threat of serious bodily injury or death to ourselves or an innocent third pary. If that is not present, and you intervene in the robbery attempt and cause it to escalate, I don't think the privilege of self defense would exsist.

This is tough "what if" scenario. There really isn't enough information in either of the articles, that would cause me to step up. The second article stated that the one in custody had been charged with carrying a firearm in the commission of a crime, and felon in possession of a firearm, but nothing in either piece says that the weapon was actually displayed/brandished.

If it's a case of "This is a robbery, and I have a gun" with the hands in the pockets, I'd be inclined to seek cover immediately, to see what happened next, prepared to deal with any "threat" when it actually materialized. So many of these mutts say they're armed, bluffing the cashier/teller to comply, when they don't actually possess the means to carry out the threat.

Even a law enforcement officer confronted with this same scenario wouldn't be authorized to use deadly force in this situation. He could and would order the BG at gun point to FREEZE, and then Slowly, show me your hands. BG produces a gun, he's trying to outdraw a trigger squeeze, and we all know or should know, that action beats reaction every time. In this instance the advantage goes to the officer.

Practice your WHEN/THEN thinking always, and you'll improve your odds of surviving this kind of situation.

Be safe.

I hate to sound like a wimp but I carry to protect me and mine. Unless there was a real clear situation where I had to act to save the life of a stranger, I would make every effort to move away and call 911 while watching my back. Zales has insurance and I'd have to believe they wanted the jewels more than they wanted to harm someone. If the gun is not a direct threat to me I would not be jumping in. My actions may just cause a panic and there would be rounds flying through a crowded mall. Let the police do their jobs.