Almost had to pull the pistol out this morning

This is a discussion on Almost had to pull the pistol out this morning within the Home (And Away From Home) Defense Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I don't know what the animal control laws are in your state. However, several years ago in a town next to mine, a dog attacked ...

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Thread: Almost had to pull the pistol out this morning

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array KoriBustard's Avatar
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    I don't know what the animal control laws are in your state. However, several years ago in a town next to mine, a dog attacked and injured a woman who was walking down the street. She sued. The only reason I know this story is that I was driving by that house and saw a "For Sale" sign and commented to a friend about it (given that it was an interesting house and property). He told me the story of the dog attack and that the owners lost "everything" in the suit and had to sell their home. Not that you would sue your neighbor, but this is something to be taken very seriously.
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  3. #17
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    I had to shoot my neighbors pit bull last month.When I got home from work I heard my dog barking in the front yard. I went out to put my dog in the garage, and the neighbor that owned the pit bull came part way up my driveway and tried to call the dog to him. It ignored him and disappeared in the trees toward another neighbors property. I took my dog into the garage, and the neighbor left. A little while later I saw the neighbor coming up the drivaway in front of my house again, and stopped half way up the driveway.. I saw their dog in the back yard so I went out to try to chase it toward where they were, and it went around the garage toward them. When I walked around the garage, the dog was about 75' away, about halfway between me and the owners truck. When it saw me it turned and started running toward me. The hair on it's back was raised, and it's lips were pulled back showing it's teeth. I started yelling as loud as I could "GET OUT OF HERE, GET!!" The dog kept running toward me and I pulled my SP101. I had two choices, either be mauled by the dog or shoot it. When it was about ten feet from me I fired one shot and the dog yelped and ran away. I thought that I had hit it, but wasn't sure. I immediatly went to the owners truck and told him that I was sorry, but I didn't have a choice. I went inside and called the Sherriff's office to report what had happened. Ten days later, a Deputy Sherriff came to my house and told me that the neighbor had just reported that I killed his dog. I told him what had happened and he agreed that I did what I had to do. I didn't know where I had hit the dog, I didn't have time to use the sights. The Deputy said that I had hit it in the center of the chest. I was really surprised to hear that, I didn't think it would have run off after taking a .357 158 grain HP to the chest.

    I wish it wouldn't have happened, if I had to do it over again I would have just stayed inside. But I thought about it, and if my dog was on their property about to maul someone, I would rather they shoot it, than deal with the legal and medical bills from an attack. It's a tough situation, hopefully yours will be resolved.
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  4. #18
    Distinguished Member Array dangerranger's Avatar
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    I have shot a lot of stray animals over the years. On the dairy they would kill calfs, and chickens, and harass the cows. You will never be popular with the neighbors after killing their pets. But I will warn people one time about their dogs and shoot them the next time. I live in a pretty rural area but there is a housing tract next to us where over half of the residents are from the San Francisco Bay area. More than one has told me that I have no right to kill their pets, But state law says other wise. DR
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  5. #19
    Member Array Eichorn's Avatar
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    I think the OP did the right thing. You stopped the threat.

    Thing is, just about every single one of my neighbor's dogs has approached me in an aggressive manner at one time; hackles raised, stiff tail, fixed stare. In all cases I've either gone around them in circular fashion while avoiding excessive eye contact or waited for them to approach me. Every single time they've either watched me until I passed or smelled me and decided I was not in fact a threat. Overt signs, such as snarling, barking or growling are warnings that you are doing something the dog does not like. They are not necessarily precursors to an attack.

    Personally, I consider a dog to be about the same as an unarmed human in terms of their threat. There would have to be some kind of "disparity of force" or other factors (such as small child involved) for me to shoot a dog. I would no more shoot a dog for warning me off than I would shoot a person for cussing me out. Given that your average Pit Bull is about 60 pounds, I find it a bit odd that an adult male human should feel that threatened by something they outweigh by 3 times. Now, I'm not saying there aren't instances where a 60 pound dog would be a threat to someone, but I feel it needs to be kept in perspective.

    In my experience a lot of people are not only irresponsible dog owners, but rubbish when it comes to understanding how dogs communicate and interact.
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  6. #20
    Senior Member Array palmcoaster's Avatar
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    60 pounds wide open with teeth showing headed for me is perspective enough.Granted it was headed for my dog but that is still perspective enough to protect my leashed dog

  7. #21
    Member Array MasterGadgets's Avatar
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    When they are close enough for me to see "dogs has approached me in an aggressive manner at one time; hackles raised, stiff tail, fixed stare" and they are on my property, they are too close.

    I have owned dogs for many years and understand them. When you see "Overt signs, such as snarling, barking or growling are warnings that you are doing something the dog does not like" and they are doing something I don't like". At this point, if they do not leave or come closer, they are dead!

    Then I call the Sheriff's office to cover my a$$.
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  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eichorn View Post
    I think the OP did the right thing. You stopped the threat.

    Thing is, just about every single one of my neighbor's dogs has approached me in an aggressive manner at one time; hackles raised, stiff tail, fixed stare. In all cases I've either gone around them in circular fashion while avoiding excessive eye contact or waited for them to approach me. Every single time they've either watched me until I passed or smelled me and decided I was not in fact a threat. Overt signs, such as snarling, barking or growling are warnings that you are doing something the dog does not like. They are not necessarily precursors to an attack.

    Personally, I consider a dog to be about the same as an unarmed human in terms of their threat. There would have to be some kind of "disparity of force" or other factors (such as small child involved) for me to shoot a dog. I would no more shoot a dog for warning me off than I would shoot a person for cussing me out. Given that your average Pit Bull is about 60 pounds, I find it a bit odd that an adult male human should feel that threatened by something they outweigh by 3 times. Now, I'm not saying there aren't instances where a 60 pound dog would be a threat to someone, but I feel it needs to be kept in perspective.

    In my experience a lot of people are not only irresponsible dog owners, but rubbish when it comes to understanding how dogs communicate and interact.
    I have been chewed on by dogs in the past and I don't want to get chewed on again. I don't really care what a dog is thinking or why. I just want dogs to stay away from me.

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterGadgets View Post
    When they are close enough for me to see "dogs has approached me in an aggressive manner at one time; hackles raised, stiff tail, fixed stare" and they are on my property, they are too close.
    I agree. I have no duty to wait until they are chewing on me to act.
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  9. #23
    Member Array Eichorn's Avatar
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    I have been chewed on by dogs in the past and I don't want to get chewed on again. I don't really care what a dog is thinking or why. I just want dogs to stay away from me.
    So you think lethal force is justified because you're afraid of dogs? I'm not sure if that is what you mean, but it seems to be what you're implying.
    I agree. I have no duty to wait until they are chewing on me to act.
    I am making a distinction between what may be considered legal and what I feel is right. If I can avoid shooting a neighbor's beloved pet, I will make every effort to do so. My experience has taught me that even apparently aggressive dogs, who show every indication of preparing to attack, will not do so if given the chance. A dog must approach you to say "hi" and decide whether you are friend or foe.

    Some "advice" I have heard to discourage aggressive dogs:
    *Stare straight into their eyes
    *Approach them head on
    Which to a dog are both signs of aggression and an indication that you are going to attack them.

    (Edit: I posted these as an example of some of the misinformation out there. DO NOT do either of these when approaching a dog)
    Last edited by Eichorn; January 28th, 2013 at 06:39 PM. Reason: Edited for clarity.
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  10. #24
    Senior Member Array palmcoaster's Avatar
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    well we can always agree to disagree as they say.I would in no way shape or form run toward a dog showing aggression to see if I can win the game of chicken. My property my rules so to speak(within the law of course)

  11. #25
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    Interesting tangent we're on now.

    A dog needs to know its boundaries - what areas it is supposed to defend, and what areas its supposed to allow people to walk through/past without attacking. If a dog is trained and owned responsibly, no problem. If a dog is left to its own instincts, it will expand its territory onto public property.

    If I'm on someone's property and a dog acts acting aggressively - I will leave or talk to the owner. If I'm on public property and a dog is running at me and snarling and barking - it has a good chance of being shot. It is someone's pet - but it's an animal. It's an irresponsibly owned pet that shouldn't have been running around threatening/attacking people. If I kick the dog and it leaves me alone - what about the old lady or little kid that comes walking down the street later on that day?

    Now if a dog just has it's hair raised up and is growling at me - I'll talk to it in a firm voice. Usually I use real words - "You can growl all you want - but if you come at me, or try to bite me - you're going to be shot. Watch yourself."

    I haven't had to shoot any dogs, but I have had to call animal control a few times when people had aggressive dogs running around with no fences and no training.

    Austin

  12. #26
    Senior Member Array palmcoaster's Avatar
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    Youre right. All my dogs are well trained and always leashed and are in a fenced yard. Neighbors dog was on own accord in the dark on my property and coming right for my leashed dog full speed. It could have turned out very bad had the dogs locked up .

  13. #27
    Senior Member Array KoriBustard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eichorn View Post
    So you think lethal force is justified because you're afraid of dogs? I'm not sure if that is what you mean, but it seems to be what you're implying.

    I am making a distinction between what may be considered legal and what I feel is right. If I can avoid shooting a neighbor's beloved pet, I will make every effort to do so. My experience has taught me that even apparently aggressive dogs, who show every indication of preparing to attack, will not do so if given the chance. A dog must approach you to say "hi" and decide whether you are friend or foe.

    Some "advice" I have heard to discourage aggressive dogs:
    *Stare straight into their eyes
    *Approach them head on

    Which to a dog are both signs of aggression and an indication that you are going to attack them.
    As a dog owner (and lover) of many years, and having been around a great many dogs (both pets and hunting dogs) I'm pretty good at reading "canine body language." If a large, potentially dangerous, dog were to charge at me with hackles up and teeth bared, I would absolutely not hesitate to shoot that dog if I had no realistic chance of escape. When a dog approaches you to say "hi" typically the body language would range from bold curiosity to tail-wagging submissiveness. But never fur up, teeth bared, and charging at speed. One might decide to simply stare them in the eyes and approach head on but I would not, especially with breeds known to have the capacity for aggressive attack coupled with the ability to do me great harm. In other words, I might react to a pug differently than I would a pit bull.

    But just like the "gun violence" debate that everyone is having, the problem is rarely the dog (or the gun) but the dog (or gun) owner. I've been around many loving, playful, affectionate pit bulls. But I've also seen this and other large breeds that are out of the control. I blame the owner on the dog having to be shot, not the dog.
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  14. #28
    Distinguished Member Array shadowwalker's Avatar
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    The last dog that bit me died thanks to the Sheriffs Dept, 2001

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eichorn View Post
    So you think lethal force is justified because you're afraid of dogs? I'm not sure if that is what you mean, but it seems to be what you're implying.

    I am making a distinction between what may be considered legal and what I feel is right. If I can avoid shooting a neighbor's beloved pet, I will make every effort to do so. My experience has taught me that even apparently aggressive dogs, who show every indication of preparing to attack, will not do so if given the chance. A dog must approach you to say "hi" and decide whether you are friend or foe.

    Some "advice" I have heard to discourage aggressive dogs:
    *Stare straight into their eyes
    *Approach them head on

    Which to a dog are both signs of aggression and an indication that you are going to attack them.
    I'm not afraid of dogs. My last response may not have been very well written.

    I had a really great black lab as a pet for the better part of last decade and I loved him. What I have is NO TIME for aggressive dogs. I DON'T CARE if it's not "the dogs fault", the owner isn't the one threatening to bite me.

    More than once I have been approached by dogs I don't know that AREN'T growling and showing signs of aggression. I have no problem with this type of dog. I'll usually feed them and tie them up and call their owner.

    When my lab would get out I would listen for signs of kids laughing and then walk in that direction looking for him. I would almost always find him having a grand ole' time with the neighborhood kids playing catch or being ridden like a horse.

    More simply put, I have no time for aggressive dogs. I don't care why they are the way they are. I prefer to use a hose first or pepper spray after that. I haven't had to shoot one yet with my CCW but I wouldn't lose any sleep about it if I did.
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    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

  16. #30
    Senior Member Array Luis50's Avatar
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    These dog attack threads usually end up in the toilet and the responses run the gamut from shoot at first sight of percieved agression to "I love dogs so..."

    I got in a thread like this a while back and ended up swirling in the bowl with everyone else. Ain't going there again.

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