Beyond worst case scenario... Civic and social decay. - Page 2

Beyond worst case scenario... Civic and social decay.

This is a discussion on Beyond worst case scenario... Civic and social decay. within the Home (And Away From Home) Defense Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; In some areas the people will turn animal--more so than they already are. Others will extend a helping hand. You never know until it happens. ...

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  1. #16
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    In some areas the people will turn animal--more so than they already are. Others will extend a helping hand. You never know until it happens. Be prepared for either.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth


  2. #17
    Member Array HemiCoupl's Avatar
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    I live in a very urban area so bugging out is a must for me and mine, we run drills and are decently prepared, however being forced to bug out is a huge disadvantage, being prepared is not paranoia in my opinion. My parents were directly affected by the tornadoes that ripped through alabama and were taken aback by the mayhem that ensued. There only means of communication was me (for some reason they could dial out to my area code but none in theirs) I had to coach them through surviving with no supplies. It worked out fine for them (thank god I told them to fill the bathtubs before they lost running water). When a natural disaster breaks out I will be making fun of the people who made fun of me for my tin foil wrapped house.

  3. #18
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    I would take anything of value, passports, papers, money, guns, etc and leave the rest. The stuff can be replaced if destroyed or stolen. I pay high insurance rates so I am protected for such things. More worried about who and what can't be replaced easily. Not worth sitting thru a Cat 5 to save my TV set. My safe would be filled to the top. They aren't gonna be able to carry that away. Thankfully, SC passed a law making it illegal for police to take weapons during such events.
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  4. #19
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    I have the Weather Channel - I'm going to leave, deal with my stuff when I get back!

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    When I was in NH we were very prepared. Generators with a lot of fuel, 500 galon propane tank, wood burning stoves. Plenty of food stored. Plus money in case we had to leave and get a place to stay. Now in TX we are not as prepared but working on it. We have property in central TX where we can go with well water, generator, food. And of course we always have cash on hand in case we need to go to a hotel or get to family.

    IMO 98 percent of the folks in NOLA during Katrina were morons and idiots. Folks that had to get rescued and said they did not have the time to leave were just plain deserving of what they got. The governments plan to put the in the Superdome was the height of idiocy. If you had two legs and could walk you had no reason to be left behind. If you chose to stay behind then you had adequate time to prepare. The hurricane did not just happen upon them. I have zero sympathy for those 98 percent.

    I do understand you have folks that could not get our for many reasons, eldery, disabled, people with the IQ of a gnat.......

    Putting five or 10 bucks a month away for prepardeness will get you through a lot in life. How many times would you really need it? Once, twice, three times? Over 50 yesrs that is not much to ask for to be prepared.
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    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  6. #21
    Member Array GunsAndViolince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBSR View Post
    This isn't true Sir, and being as you say you're from MS, I'd think you would know truth from fiction. Yes, some gun owners had their guns illegally taken from them, but by no means was the entire city of New Orleans disarmed. It's just NRA sponsored fiction plain and simple.
    Could you tell us more? Did you personally observe people with weapons that were not confiscated then? I'm not trying to be difficult, it's just that your post didn't offer evidence to contradict the NRA's claim. Since one can only debate effectively when one is prepared with the real truth, I'm sure you'd be doing us a service by giving us more details, if you wouldn't mind. It seems relevant to the original post.

    Personally, we're working on getting our house off the grid. Our well and septic are all set. Next up, some remodeling and adding a woodburning stove, followed by some solar and wind power to run the water pump.

    And of course, as the nice fella from Iowa says in his sig line, "Guns, guns and more goshdarn guns!"

    Cheers

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunsAndViolince View Post
    And of course, as the nice fella from Iowa says in his sig line, "Guns, guns and more goshdarn guns!"

    Cheers
    Or "guns, ammo, and more goshdarn ammo!"
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  8. #23
    Member Array GunsAndViolince's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, right! Good point!

  9. #24
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    I think that getting a house off the grid is a smart idea. One of the things that they are reviewing to prevent a terrorist attack is making sure that the energy infrastructure is protected. However, there are still the risk. We are looking at geo-thermal for heat and solar panels for electricity. Part of it is to be prepared, part of it is that I don't like paying other companies for these utilities. I am not sure about how we would do water since we live in a dense urban area. We are also looking at increasing a supply of canned, dried, and frozen foods.

    We are also looking at increasing our security system with better locks and other preventative measures.

    A mentor once commented that it is a good idea for people to invest in gold, silver, and lead backed by gun powder.

  10. #25
    Member Array GunsAndViolince's Avatar
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    Oooooooo, I'm no treehuggin' environmental utopian, but geo-thermal heat gives me goosebumps. Well, actually the opposite of that since...well...it's...ummmm...warm...Anyhoo, wish we had it!

  11. #26
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    I guess the law abiding looters in Ct. are different then the non law abiding looters in Florida, looting starts as the people evacuate and the looting continues, and in many cases with violence, until it is evident that the property owners have returned after the storm passes. The Florida Castle Doctrine is of benefit and does allow the property owners to defend themselves.
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  12. #27
    Senior Member Array KBSR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunsAndViolince View Post
    Could you tell us more? Did you personally observe people with weapons that were not confiscated then? I'm not trying to be difficult, it's just that your post didn't offer evidence to contradict the NRA's claim. Since one can only debate effectively when one is prepared with the real truth, I'm sure you'd be doing us a service by giving us more details, if you wouldn't mind. It seems relevant to the original post.
    I'll tell you what I know to be true, but please know that i wasn't working in every precinct (or district as NOPD refers to them), but in the two that we were assigned responsibility for, along with the handful of NOPD guys that were still on the job. I was the second highest ranking officer, within my agency, answering directly to the Special Agent in Charge. All of the DHS, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) Special Agents were under my command, directly or indirectly when I was in the city.

    The responsibility for the cities law enforcement was split up, between us, ATF, DEA, FBI, U.S. Marshals, some land management police types, and others that I can't remember off the top of my head. We were all assigned responsibility for districts to patrol and police. We also had two DHS/ICE SRT teams assigned at all times, working with NOPD SWAT to deal with the "sniper" calls. FBI and ATF also had tactical teams in the rotation as well. For purpose of clarification, what was reported by the media as "Snipers" were actually pot shot criminals, that would take a shot from the housing projects at an ambulance or helicopter, and then run like the cock roach that they were. By the time our tactical teams responded they had almost always scattered to the winds.

    I didn't witness any gun confiscations at all, and none of my guys (ICE Special Agents) participated in any such illegal acts. I know this with complete certainty. I met with and talked with hundreds if not thousands of residents that were hunkered down taking care of their own property, and most, if not all of them were armed. This was NOT a problem for us. The guys we were concerned with were those that were out after curfew, looting and robbing. Those people were dealt with appropriately, and yes, if they had guns, they were taken from them. Many of our employees, that were adversely affected by the storm and subsequent flooding, remained home, with their neighbors, protecting their property and loved ones.

    Now I couldn't be everywhere in the city at once, and I know what I read and saw about the NOPD confiscating some residents guns, I think in the 9th Ward (not certain about where), but I can tell you with absolute certainty, it wasn't a city-wide effort.

    The fact that they confiscated even one weapon from a law abiding citizen is egregious, and I support the NRA filing suit to have the wrong righted. The guns never should have been taken from law abiding citizens, PERIOD. But as they are want to do, the NRA inferred, though didn't actually say, that it was wide-spread, and a lot more than it actually was. Makes for better TV commercials, and increased NRA membership I imagine.

    That city and state, at the time of Hurricane Katrina had a democrat Mayor, and a democrat Governor. Both were pitifully poor leaders IMHO. The Police Chief was MIA for weeks after the storm. Just left! It wouldn't surprise me if these chuckleheads gave the order or approved an order to disarm their constituents. They are that stupid. In fact the former Mayor, Ray Nagin was recently indicted on a host of federal crimes. Go figure.


    Hope this helps some. Be safe.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBSR View Post
    I'll tell you what I know to be true, but please know that i wasn't working in every precinct (or district as NOPD refers to them), but in the two that we were assigned responsibility for, along with the handful of NOPD guys that were still on the job. I was the second highest ranking officer, within my agency, answering directly to the Special Agent in Charge. All of the DHS, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) Special Agents were under my command, directly or indirectly when I was in the city.

    The responsibility for the cities law enforcement was split up, between us, ATF, DEA, FBI, U.S. Marshals, some land management police types, and others that I can't remember off the top of my head. We were all assigned responsibility for districts to patrol and police. We also had two DHS/ICE SRT teams assigned at all times, working with NOPD SWAT to deal with the "sniper" calls. FBI and ATF also had tactical teams in the rotation as well. For purpose of clarification, what was reported by the media as "Snipers" were actually pot shot criminals, that would take a shot from the housing projects at an ambulance or helicopter, and then run like the cock roach that they were. By the time our tactical teams responded they had almost always scattered to the winds.

    I didn't witness any gun confiscations at all, and none of my guys (ICE Special Agents) participated in any such illegal acts. I know this with complete certainty. I met with and talked with hundreds if not thousands of residents that were hunkered down taking care of their own property, and most, if not all of them were armed. This was NOT a problem for us. The guys we were concerned with were those that were out after curfew, looting and robbing. Those people were dealt with appropriately, and yes, if they had guns, they were taken from them. Many of our employees, that were adversely affected by the storm and subsequent flooding, remained home, with their neighbors, protecting their property and loved ones.

    Now I couldn't be everywhere in the city at once, and I know what I read and saw about the NOPD confiscating some residents guns, I think in the 9th Ward (not certain about where), but I can tell you with absolute certainty, it wasn't a city-wide effort.

    The fact that they confiscated even one weapon from a law abiding citizen is egregious, and I support the NRA filing suit to have the wrong righted. The guns never should have been taken from law abiding citizens, PERIOD. But as they are want to do, the NRA inferred, though didn't actually say, that it was wide-spread, and a lot more than it actually was. Makes for better TV commercials, and increased NRA membership I imagine.

    That city and state, at the time of Hurricane Katrina had a democrat Mayor, and a democrat Governor. Both were pitifully poor leaders IMHO. The Police Chief was MIA for weeks after the storm. Just left! It wouldn't surprise me if these chuckleheads gave the order or approved an order to disarm their constituents. They are that stupid. In fact the former Mayor, Ray Nagin was recently indicted on a host of federal crimes. Go figure.


    Hope this helps some. Be safe.

    Personally I was not there. BUT I did see video documentation that supports that thousands of guns were confiscated. In my opinion I would consider that widespread.

    After seeing the video of the California Highway Patrol (Special Deputies) assault a woman in here own home I personally emailed a complaint. I received a pretty poor response.

    When the NRA sued and won the city stood by and demanded unreasonable documentation. They let family heirlooms rust in trash cans. I would not consider NBC news a puppet of the NRA. And THEIR evidence met the burden of proof in a court of law.

    Rather than make comments about the NRA going for a money grab I'd suggest you focus on the people breaking the law and thumbing their noses at the courts; not those using due process.

    Rodney King gets beat up Feds all over it. Old Lady takes a beatdown from 6-8 CHP on national TV, no big thing.

    If you're going to play the LEO card then stick by the rules. You can't say what you didn't see, fair enough, I respect you for your professionalism. But if you're saying the NRA did a money grab, I'd like to see your facts or evidence.

    As a NRA Life Member I don't care for my organization to be called out without facts.

    If you're just posting like anyone else here then you're entitled to your opinion, no need for proof, this is the internet.

    Sort of like journalism; keep news separated from editorial (remember back when?).

    Not trying to be a jerk or confrontational, just tired of inferences made about the character of the NRA without facts to back it up. Especially now when my government is doing everything to demonize the organization.
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  14. #29
    Distinguished Member Array chuckusaret's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msb45 View Post
    ....................When the NRA sued and won the city stood by and demanded unreasonable documentation. They let family heirlooms rust in trash cans. I would not consider NBC news a puppet of the NRA. And THEIR evidence met the burden of proof in a court of law.

    Rather than make comments about the NRA going for a money grab I'd suggest you focus on the people breaking the law and thumbing their noses at the courts; not those using due process..............
    Thumbs Up?
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  15. #30
    Member Array Boudin's Avatar
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    Having lived through it personally, I can tell you this. The producers of the world... you know the people who have jobs, raise families and pay their taxes were just fine.
    They fired up their chainsaws, cut the trees off their homes, patched their roofs, fired up their generators, helped their neighbors, fed their families and protected themselves and each other. It was hot, and very unpleasant but they buckled down and did what had to be done.

    On the other hand, the consumers of the world... you know the people who don't contibute anything to society, live off the government and suck up resources? Well, they also did what they always do, sit back and wait for the government to take care of them. Problem was, the government was overwhelmed dealing with a disaster that they were not ready for. Every resource was strained to the breaking point and the local "leaders" crumbled under the pressure. When the government wasn't there Johnny on the Spot with the handouts, the consumers just took matters into their own hands and took what they wanted by any means. It was amazing to watch how quickly order disolved into chaos and lawlesness in some areas.

    This is the reason I keep a few boxes of ammo for a rainy day. I'm not so much worried about a crackhead kicking my door in. I'm worried about what happens if the bubble ever pops and Uncle Sam is no longer able to hand out the goodies and we get post-K on a national level. Scary.

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