My time with a cold blooded killer; They walk among us!
This is a discussion on My time with a cold blooded killer; They walk among us! within the Home (And Away From Home) Defense Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I didn't want to hijack Chaplin Scott's story http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/...-homicide.html , so I started a new thread because while it's kind of loosely related to what ...
March 25th, 2013 03:18 AM
My time with a cold blooded killer; They walk among us!
I didn't want to hijack Chaplin Scott's story Former teen neighbor arrested in triple Homicide, so I started a new thread because while it's kind of loosely related to what his talks about, I didn't want this story to take away from the discussion in that thread.
I wanted to relate an incident I personally know about which illustrates the point, you never know when you are going to be in the presence of a killer, or genuine psycopathic bad guy. Even on a casual basis, or during an otherwise normal event.
Just about three years ago, one of my co-worker's "live-in boyfriend" murdered his ex-wife's grandfather over a home burglary gone bad. He had been dating my co-worker for several months and then finally moved in with her and her two kids. He came down to EMS station frequently and shot the breeze with everyone. Went fishing with some of my co-workers. He had been involved as my co-worker's boyfriend for well over a year at the time of the murder.
My boss usually has a 3 day party at his lake house every summer for the EMS staff, some of our former students, fire and law enforcement people we know. People camp out in the yard, BBQ, bring their ski boats and wave runners. Kareoke one night and so on. The killer came with my co-worker one year and hung out with everyone for the weekend. Just a routine envited guest at the party of "professional people" and their families.
Unbeknownst to everyone at the party, it was coming up on the one year anniversary of the night when he, and another guy had decided to burglarize his ex-wife's grandfathers house. The victim was a wounded WWII war hero who had lost an eye from a bayonet fight during combat and he had a collection of old military rifles, pistols, swords, bayonets which was worth a considerable amount of money. Being a WWII vet, the victim was a man in his 80's at the time of the crime. I'm told that they planned it for a time when the victim was not supposed to be home, but because the victim knew the guy so well (being the ex-husband of his granddaughter), he intended to kill him outright if it turned out he was at home, or contronted them during the burglary. Which is what happened. The grandfather was home, and he caught them while they were preparing to leave, and apparently he shot the 80 year old war hero in the head.
Now during this party we were attending at my bosses lake house, this dude started acting like a real ass hat. Drinking heavily, being confrontational with people for no apparent reason, and making a general jerk out of himself. He later got into a fight with his girlfriend (my co-worker) and he attempted to take her car. She got into the car with him trying to stop him and he took off down the gravel road with her. About 20 minutes later, she comes walking back to the lake house and said that he deliberately crashed her car into a tree. She said that he started hitting her and said he was just going to kill them both and drove the car into the tree.
So, the police get called. They find him walking down the road and picked him up. In the end they arrested him for DUI, and domestic violence and take him away. Again, this incident took place at my bosses lake house, which is two counties away from where we all live, work, and where the murder took place.
So, meanwhile, this guy can't post bond and is sitting in jail for DV & DUI in another county as the one year anniverary of the murder rolls buy. A day after the anniversary, the accomplice in the homicide who had been on the lam in Kansas City, gets overrun with guilt and drives down here and walks into the Sheriff's office and turns himself in for the crime. He rolls over on my co-worker's boyfriend and jig is up. In the end, the boyfriend gets life prison and eligible for parole in 30. They wanted the death penalty or life without parole, but there were some snafu's with the prosecution and the state attorney general recommended they file on second degree murder instead of first degree or capital murder.
In hindsight, we all believed that his belligerent behavior, heavy drinking and the incident with his girlfriend and the car stemmed from the fact that he was probably under a tremendous amount of emotional pressure and strain from the heinous crime he committed, and the fact that he was attempting to remain calm, and act normal amidst seven or eight off duty cops who attended the party for the weekend. We figured he probably felt like he had a scarlet letter tattooed to his forehead saying "I'm A Murderer!"
Now, I'm sure no one was at risk of getting their throats cut in their sleep by this killer at the party there, but the important thing to take away from this is that you never know when your path will cross with a cold blooded killer, and what the circumstances will be.
Which is why I decided long ago, being a ccw holder who only carries part time, or when they feel they may need it isn't for me. I carry all the time, everywhere it's legal. I think a lot of people believe I'm an alcoholic or something because I don't drink at these kinds of events like everyone else does if I'm carrying a gun. It's not that I don't drink ever. Just not at places where I'm gonna have my gun with me. And every time I take a trip out of town, or go camping, I'm taking a gun or two.
Rule #21 of USMC rules for gunfighting, is Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet. While those rules are intended to be tongue-n-cheek, it's a concept which has a certain amount of merit. Which is essentially saying, never let your guard down, and never trust anyone 100%.
This guy was a cold, callous killer, who intentionally killed an elderly person simply to protect his identity over his greed to steal something of value that he wanted. If not for how things played out in this murder, and the guilt and emotional pressure had not become insurmountable for his accomplice, he could have gotten away with it, or at least still be at large and still living with the EMT I work with.
As I said earlier, we didn't think anyone was at risk of getting killed in their sleep by this guy we were camping with, but what if he had gotten away with it, and a year or two down the road he discovered that you have something of value at your house which he wanted? Suppose he found out that I have a decent number of valuable guns at home? It makes a person think about the people they meet through just normal casual circumatances during the course of life. If you understand the concept of Rule #21 of the USMC Rules of gunfighting, and if you are dedicated to being armed all the time, you shouldn't be caught completely off guard, if your path ever crosses with a truly evil, cold blooded person, yet appears to be just a normal guy on the outside.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
March 25th, 2013 03:30 AM
During most folks lifetimes they will probably unknowingly and maybe will never know they have been up close and personal with a cold blooded murderer or rapist etc. Most of the time it probably will be a short term or passing thing where even if you did hear the persons name again after a few years it wouldnt register on you that you had dealings with them.
And thats the rub aint it? Some person we know maybe have known for several years and think is a great person could actually be BTK or some other cretin. That we didnt become a headline victim of some such devil may rest on nothing more than being perceived by that person as to risky a target.
Other hand we may never know anyone but upstanding folks. Chance is always there. How your set to deal with it IF, is what separates victims from survivors. Been that way since the beginning. Will always be that way.
" It is sad governments are chief'ed by the double tongues." quote Ten Bears Movie Outlaw Josie Wales
March 25th, 2013 04:14 AM
And it is a good thing to remember every so often.
March 25th, 2013 04:43 AM
You'd be surprised what ordinary people are capable of. Just remember that you are one trigger pull away from being in the same boat as this guy. Thank your lucky stars, and your parents, for being a level headed individual that represents the best of society.
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools.
Springfield xd 45, Sig Sauer SP2022(9mm),Remington 700(.308), Yugo M10 variant w/IZH Kobra optic,...and lots of ammo for all of 'em.
March 26th, 2013 02:13 AM
He killed for property/money, he'd kill if you dissed him if he thought he's get away with it, or even if he couldn't.
"Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18
Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
Paramedics With Guns Scare People!
March 26th, 2013 08:42 AM
No doubt, moving at random in public we probably cross path's with someone who is "wanted for murder", though we don't ever realize it. OTOH it would be unnerving to know someone "socially" then find out later about their background as you did.
Good story and thanks for posting, it serves as a good reminder.
^^^ Very true and I try and do that as much as possible. Also, one should never ignore the "Be polite, be professional" part either, both will go a long ways favorably for us. I want to be alert and aware, and strive to do so, but not so obvious that I'd hear, "lighten up Francis".
Originally Posted by Bark'n
March 26th, 2013 09:04 AM
Too bad he didn't do a better job of killing himself with the car. Glad your friend made it out alive after being in such a close relationship with that piece of trash. Had all the makings of a classic murder suicide..
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." — Thomas Jefferson
March 26th, 2013 10:02 AM
I knew a guy in NC who grew up to be a serial killer and also a sheriff's duputy in WA who killed his wife, shot himself, and blamed it on a robber. One got the needle, the other got life.
Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid...
Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth
March 26th, 2013 11:09 AM
Good story. Well, not good exactly, but good to remind us all that it's always going to boil down to what we don't know that produces the most risk. There's absolutely no way to fully know other people, or fully know what they have done or will do. The best mitigation of risk is to understand that anyone is capable of anything at any time. Be prepared all the time and you'll have the greatest chance of surviving any encounter that chance drops in you lap.
NRA Life Member
"I don't believe gun owners have rights." - Sarah Brady
March 26th, 2013 04:36 PM
Thank you for this post, and what you say is very true.
Originally Posted by Bark'n
I don't drink at all, but I understand your point. I also am put into those social situations where everybody else is drinking and I do not. I know people at work think I am an alcoholic since two have asked me about how I stopped drinking. I have never had a drink in my life, so I don't know how hard it is to stop. I made my choice to not drink based on several things. I was a witness to a horrible car accident caused by drunk driving. The driver was crushed between the steering wheel and his seat due to the impact of the vehicle against an old oak tree. Secondly, I know myself, I know (or suspect) that I may not be able to control myself if I start drinking, and I would become an alcoholic. I struggle with this over simple things like soda, or sweet things, so I greatly suspect I could easily become an alcoholic. I also suspect I would be a mean drunk.
With this bit of knowledge I have made the choice to not drink and my coworkers can't believe I have never taken a drink. Then I show them video of what they did or looked like when they were drunk. I have one coworker who I suspect is an active alcoholic, and when he gets drunk (which is frequent) none of us trusts him, but like your story, he is a very nice guy when sober.
I carry whenever I can and is legal because of what you just posted.
"Gun Free Zones" is where only criminals carry guns.
March 26th, 2013 04:53 PM
I have had a similar situation (being around a murderer)
My wife had a co-worker who married a grocery(major nationwide chain) store manager and had two kids. We would do things with them socially. I did their taxes and her mother's. He actually baby-sat our two girls for a baby shower at their house. They moved to Nashville in 2008. One night he acted like he was leaving to go back to their old house that was for sale to fix it up a bit. He came back home after everyone was asleep and killed his wife. This was a guy that we trusted our kids with. He was super friendly at his job and was always very helpful to everyone. We never suspected a thing. It was a shock when he was arrested. You just never know.
March 26th, 2013 04:55 PM
You just never know. Best to be prepared.
"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt" ~ Mark Twain
March 26th, 2013 05:00 PM
Yep, you just never know, and your point is well taken.
Also think about the strangers and people you pass walking within a foot or two daily, sitting in a car right next to you or in front / behind you, or in-line waiting to check out at the store. Chances are you come into contact with violent felons and criminals everyday without even knowing it.
My case in point. A little over a year ago I was at our local Walmart for awhile, did my thing and checked out at the front of the store, no biggie. That evening on the local news they showed a surveillance video with two murderers who escaped from prison and was begging for information to capture them. Guess who was a couple of checkout lines over from them at the exact same time? I would not have even known had I not seen the local evening news that evening?
I too went from a part time CCW to never leaving home without it. Many times I get in a hurry and want to rush out and go get something for a project really quick so I can finish it, naw, not anymore. It's probably that one time in a million you were careless and decided to expedite your time that you're going to wish you had taken the time and effort to at least throw a pocket pistol on ya.
Good post BTW, thanks!
I think, therefore I am...
March 26th, 2013 05:08 PM
Great story with a lesson from which we can all learn. Thank you for sharing.
March 26th, 2013 05:24 PM
Originally Posted by ppkheat
^I'm in this camp here^^^^^^
I often wonder as I'm driving around for my job, is that dude next to me, or group of unsavory looking guys wanted for something?
I would rather die with good men than hide with cowards
If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy."
M&Pc .357SIG, 2340Sigpro .357SIG
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