Need some advice on HD carbine or SG and storage.

This is a discussion on Need some advice on HD carbine or SG and storage. within the Home (And Away From Home) Defense Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I currently own quite a few handguns. Revolvers, WWII pistols and a couple of modern carry guns. Due to some recent events I have been ...

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Thread: Need some advice on HD carbine or SG and storage.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array daffyduc's Avatar
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    Need some advice on HD carbine or SG and storage.

    I currently own quite a few handguns. Revolvers, WWII pistols and a couple of modern carry guns. Due to some recent events I have been considering picking up something a little more substantial in terms of stopping power at home.

    I live in a 2 level home with a nice death funnel. No concerns with outdoor long range defense. The furthest distance inside my home is 50 feet down a stairwell concrete floor backstop.

    Options:

    Shotgun
    Pros: deadly at close range, simple to store and secure. Cheap and reliable.
    Cons: limited capacity, might be too much gun for the wife (5'4 120lbs) to use if needed.

    AR
    Pros: capacity, reliability, stopping power
    Cons: more complex than pump shotgun. Current cost and ammo availability.

    Pistol caliber carbine:
    Pro: shared ammo supply, easy to use and control due to low recoil, relatively inexpensive compared to AR or AK platforms.
    Cons: ???? Unsure about stopping power.
    45 acp out of a 17" barrel seems like it should get the job done.


    I have lots of questions about the handgun caliber carbines as I have never shot them or really checked them out in person. I am interested due to the capacity and ease of use. Also it seems these are still available for a reasonable price.

    I know this is not a new concept ( heck the original tommy guns were chambered in 45acp) but Im not sure if these are much better than just a handgun. I feel like they would be very accurate and easy to control. Again it's not just me at home. I feel like my wife would shoot the low recoil rifles the best. Also they have a very small footprint compared to a full size shotgun or AR.

    What are your thoughts? Any other suggestions? Things I'm not considering?

    Also it's worth pointing out I have 2 kids under the age of 10. I need to be able to secure these and keep them accessible. Currently my only loaded gun is my EDC that goes with me and stays available overnight. The wife has a revolver that does the same.

    I would want this gun to be available but safely stored. Need some advice on this as well.

    Thanks in advance.


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    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    There is a lot to be said for the lowly SKS. Little recoil, easy to get ammo for at least now and not to bad expense wise. Semi auto, 10 round capacity with stripper clip reloads which with a bit of practice is pretty darn fast. Tough as nails and reliable. Easy tear down and clean.

    Not sexy but like I said tough reliable, relatively cheap, simple to operate and maintain. Able to deal with any 2 footed and most four footed critters effectively.

    edited to add. Can be stored cruiser style with an empty chamber or if lerry of that empty with a couple of stripper clips in a pocket or stuck under the mattress.

    Even if they found them I seriously doubt 10 year olds unless shown how to would know how to use a stripper clip or even what it was for.
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    VIP Member Array pittypat21's Avatar
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    As far as a shotgun goes, there's no reason why your wife can't handle a 12 gauge pump. My wife is 5'0 and around the same weight as yours (she'd kill me if I mentioned her actual weight, ha) and she handles a 12 gauge like a pro.

    As far as your comment about ARs, there's nothing complicated about them at all. They are easy to operate, easy to learn.

    IMO, either one would be a great choice. But don't rule either of them out because you think it would be difficult for your wife to shoot or learn. My wife has her own AR and operates my shotgun just as easily as anything else she shoots. Those videos of women being thrown around by a 12 gauge are funny and all, but they really aren't that bad as long as you actually teach your wife how to shoot properly (stance, grip, etc.).
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    Well, the standard advice for HD is to move toward the shotgun. For indoor distances it's more than adequate, and with proper ammo, the 12 and 20 gauges are unquestionable fight-stoppers. Your particular wrinkle is your wife and her ability to handle a defensive shotgun, and there's no way to advise you without her spending time with the guns. For basic familiarization and training, birdshot will be fine (light target and promo field loads), but she will need to experience what buckshot loads feel like from the delivery end. It's not awful-awful; I've seen 100-pound gals handle 12-gauge shotguns like it was no big deal.

    The AR platform has a lot going for it, but I recommend professional training to learn how to run the gun and use it effectively.

    I have zero hands-on 'live' experience with pistol-caliber carbines, but I've handled and dry-fired the Marlin Camp Carbine and the Ruger PC9/40. Of those two, the Ruger seems more rugged, but they're also pretty scarce (both the Ruger and Marlin are long out of production) and priced accordingly.

    One really good candidate is the M-1 carbine, if you can find a good one that's affordable. It's an effective close range round, the gun is compact, light and handles better (IMO) than an AR, and recoil is negligible. If you use the search function, look for posts by fellow mod bmcgilvray about the M-1 carbine in a HD role.
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    VIP Member Array pittypat21's Avatar
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    A great thing about buck shot in a 12 gauge is to remember that one shot from the buck shot is similar to 9 shots from a 9mm pistol. If your shot is right on target, you've given your enemy a really bad day.
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    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    You didnt say what hand gun calibers you have but if 357magnum or 44 magnum is in the list then there ya go. A lever action 357 carbine shoots the same round as the handgun and with the right load approaches 30-30 rifle performance. I still vote SKS though LOL
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    Senior Member Array daffyduc's Avatar
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    Need some advice on HD carbine or SG and storage.

    The calibers I have now are as follows. .25, .380, .38, 9mm and .40 s&w.

    I have never really looked into an SKS. That could be an option. Looks like a very good choice. There is one on armslist for $300 right now.

    I like the bayonet option as well ... just incase things get up close and personal ;)

    The only rifle my wife has shot is a 22. She may be ok with a shotgun but I'm not sure. She is very new to guns. It's taken me a long time to get her to warm up to firearms in general. She was raised in a household where guns were bad and only belong to bad people. Although I was raised in the New York City area my grandfather has been a Sierra club member longer than I've been alive. I was raised with guns she was raised to fear them.





    Thanks for the advice. Keep it coming.



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    The SKS is a neat gun, and I really like mine (especially after I put a longer stock on it), but its length is less than handy if your defense scenario is indoors. The shortest SKS variant is about 40 inches long, versus 38" for an 870 shotgun with an 18" barrel, or 36" for an M-1 carbine.
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  10. #9
    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daffyduc View Post
    The calibers I have now are as follows. .25, .380, .38, 9mm and .40 s&w.

    I have never really looked into an SKS. That could be an option. Looks like a very good choice. There is one on armslist for $300 right now.

    I like the bayonet option as well ... just incase things get up close and personal ;)

    The only rifle my wife has shot is a 22. She may be ok with a shotgun but I'm not sure. She is very new to guns. It's taken me a long time to get her to warm up to firearms in general. She was raised in a household where guns were bad and only belong to bad people. Although I was raised in the New York City area my grandfather has been a Sierra club member longer than I've been alive. I was raised with guns she was raised to fear them.





    Thanks for the advice. Keep it coming.



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    SkS has not much more recoil than a 22 a little but not much more. As to your wifes mindset it also has some historical interest as well as it was WW2 weapon.

    The one I have doesnt have the bayonet. It was missing when it came here lol. They are great weapons. Be sure you learn how to clean the bolt and firing pin though. Its a piece of cake to do but not doing it can result in a slam fire if the free floating firing pin gets stuck. As long as you can see the pin move back and forth when you tilt the rifle with the bolt open your good.

    There is also a inexpensive replacement spring loaded firing pin that is easily installed if that bothers you. Ive never had it happen but I have read about it happening in a very dirty rifle.

    As long as you clean the rifle occasionally its not a problem. And they can be taken apart by using one of their own cartridges LOL
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    Senior Member Array daffyduc's Avatar
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    I am not sure length is really an issue in my home. Essentially I have a double foyer with complete open top stairwell. Similar to the attached image. It's a very good defendable position. If I have to do any room clearing its going to be with a handgun. Really our plan is to defend the upstairs and wait for police. They can have anything they want downstairs. All our bedrooms are up top.

    Note this is similar in concept but is not my home.



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    Senior Member Array daffyduc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
    There is also a inexpensive replacement spring loaded firing pin that is easily installed.
    I was wondering about the free floating pin. So does this have a tendency to be less safe in a drop situation? Seems like it might be a good idea to swap the pin for that reason alone?


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    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    The SKS is a neat gun, and I really like mine (especially after I put a longer stock on it), but its length is less than handy if your defense scenario is indoors. The shortest SKS variant is about 40 inches long, versus 38" for an 870 shotgun with an 18" barrel, or 36" for an M-1 carbine.
    Smitty I didnt drag out the tape but i just looked and with the factory stock on the Chicom SKS I have with no bayonet its shorter than the mod 60 22lr, a jr model single shot 12 ga which is pretty darn short and way shorter than any of the standard pumps I have and I know at least one is 18 inch barrell
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    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daffyduc View Post
    I was wondering about the free floating pin. So does this have a tendency to be less safe in a drop situation? Seems like it might be a good idea to swap the pin for that reason alone?


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    Shooting steel case army surplus ammo the primers are hard so dropping it I guess might but its not likely. Now if you shoot more modern ammo in it then yeah it could be a problem if you dropped it just right. The pin swap isnt expensive and is a breeze to do so if you felt better with that it does take care of the free floating pin thing.
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    VIP Member Array WrongRecroom's Avatar
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    Looking over everything you said . I would suggested a sub 9 or sub 2000 , I know the sub 2000 has a built in lock so that it can not be fired until opened and a pin must be pushed to open the stock as well. Plus in most case 9mm out a 16inch barrel picks up a lot of speed don't quote me but I believe it get close to a 357 mag . Plus depending on what mag you have for your handguns they probable make one that works for it . They also make a 40cal version if you wanted stopping power .

    I am a fan of pistol rifle for the light recoil and fun factory but they make good hd guns imop.

    Again if you both can handle a shotgun ( try a semi auto with a heavy duty recoil pad and low recoil rounds) I would say have one and find a easy access safe or trigger lock for it , they are still good hd guns.

    I know sks are great guns , but me personal would not reach for a sks as my first hd gun unless I know how to reload fast and under pressure . The only one I personal would mess with would be a m or d model as they take ak mags. I rather have a folding stock ak 74 or 47 they to me handle better close quarters.

    And with firing pins most people change them due to slam fire issue , not 100% sure on the drop safe issues..

    And you can get a ar -15 for pretty cheep now and ammo and mags have come way down .

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    VIP Member Array NONAME762's Avatar
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    I haven't seen anything about a quick access long gun safe. So here comes my .02 worth. Anyone here that knows the actual name /dealers/link feel free to chime in.

    There's a relatively new 1 long gun quick access vault I saw on the web. It is built to fit in a corner. It is 4 sided. Two sides flush to either wall at the corner. Door is the other 2 sides. Mind you this is NOT a gun safe. It is more of a quick access box just made for a rifle or shotgun rather than a handgun. Not keyed. Three digit code I think. It holds one rifle OR one shotgun. Dimensions roughly 50" tall by 12" by 12".

    This quick access vault is marketed as a go to gun for HD against burglary or home invasion scenarios.

    Awakened by intruders forcing front door this vaults entry code is designed for very fast entry unlike a keyed gun safe.
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