When can I use my firearm

When can I use my firearm

This is a discussion on When can I use my firearm within the Home (And Away From Home) Defense Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; So just as the title says, I am wanting information or scenarios or cases perhaps that will better help me understand when we as permit ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array Chasejax's Avatar
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    When can I use my firearm

    So just as the title says, I am wanting information or scenarios or cases perhaps that will better help me understand when we as permit holders are allowed to use a firearm or pull one. Specifically in the state of Florida.

    I have read a few examples and read comments where if someone is being attacked or threatened to be attacked yet the attacker doesnt have a weapon that one would get in trouble for pulling a firearm. What about pulling but not using?

    Example, ive read posts where the majority of people say they would neeeever pull a gun if they are being attacked by fists. Thwy say theyd just fight them. Then I see a video of someome being victim of "the knockout" game and read comments about how they wish the victim had a gun or they would have shot the attacker had it been them.

    Is there a place in this website thatll better explain when it is legally okay to pull or use a firearm in self defense? Or anothet website? Again, specifically in florida.

    Heres a example...
    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v2k7T7NNpUE

    Lets say for this example I am yhe guy in the black shirt. I have done nothing and this guy in green is obviously wanting to fight. I am backing away and announce to him to keep away from me. When he continues to not listen and gives me a shove am I legally able to pull my weapon? I am not a big guy and would not be able to defend against someone like that. After pulling weapon if I back up and give room and he continues at me would I be able to use it? What about a warning shot? I would bet after seeing a weapon the said attacker would run away.


    So like I said im just trying to get the knowledge I need or think I need before my permit arrives. Second to last thing I want is to end up in jail for defending myself... of course first would be ending up dead.


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    When you know in your heart and mind that there is no other option but to employ deadly force to save your own life or prevent serious bodily harm.

    There are hundreds of thousands of different scenarios but it all boils down to this.
    Sister, WHEC724, manolito and 3 others like this.
    North Carolina Concealed Handgun Permit Instructor
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    First, I recommend focusing on all the ways to avoid using your firearm.

    Your attacker's presentation of lethal force and intent to use it, is your critical decision time. Can you safely get away? "In The Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoob should be required reading.

    Stand-your-ground laws can be useful in defending the innocent, but it's stupid to shoot someone "just because you can".
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  4. #4
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    Good question. I also wonder when it is acceptable to intervene when you see someone that is unarmed getting into trouble with a BG. It is great to MYOB but if I were to see an elderly person getting attacked I couldn't stand by and not get involved, so is pulling a gun acceptable to protect the older person even if I were not in danger? This is borderline playing cop, but again...you can't stand there and watch and wait for the LE to arrive.

    Thanks for bringing this up, hopefully we will get some more good and legal advice. I think FL and SC laws are closely the same on a lot of things.
    WHEC724 likes this.
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    Senior Member Array CommonCents's Avatar
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    Don't take advice from a forum for serious issues like that. There are quite a few macho monday morning quarterbacks online that post some BS.

    Talk to a lawyer and instructors/LEO in your state for first hand information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sister View Post
    Good question. I also wonder when it is acceptable to intervene when you see someone that is unarmed getting into trouble with a BG. It is great to MYOB but if I were to see an elderly person getting attacked I couldn't stand by and not get involved, so is pulling a gun acceptable to protect the older person even if I were not in danger? This is borderline playing cop, but again...you can't stand there and watch and wait for the LE to arrive.

    Thanks for bringing this up, hopefully we will get some more good and legal advice. I think FL and SC laws are closely the same on a lot of things.
    Sis brings up a good point. The rescuer puts themself in a terrible position, both in dealing with the threat, and the risk that the person that they're protecting might turn around and sue them. My response in this scenario will be on a case-by-case basis.
    manolito likes this.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommonCents View Post
    Don't take advice from a forum for serious issues like that. There are quite a few macho monday morning quarterbacks online that post some BS.

    Talk to a lawyer and instructors/LEO in your state for first hand information.
    Just like on internet forums, lawyers, instructors and LEOs give bad advice too.
    __________________________________
    'Clinging to my guns and religion

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Florida Firearms: Law, Use & Ownership -- by Jon Gutmacher

    In The Gravest Extreme -- by Mas Ayoob.

    Beyond those two introductions, I'd strongly recommend some high-quality training that involves force-on-force, situational shoot/don't-shoot type scenarios, close-quarters stuff, etc. The more training, and the more-varied training, the better. You'll change, as you train. You'll change over time. The statutes might well change over that timeframe as well. Keep learning, and keep pushing your limitations on knowledge of the laws, situations, your abilities. That's about all you can do, really.

    Much of it will depend on your ability to quickly and rationally assess a situation and apply your given skills; much will depend on state law. The FLA statutory limitations on use of force should be easily discerned, from reading the statutes. But, of course, the risk of having someone question the reasonableness of your actions is always present. How much are you prepared to lose, if you get such a zealot questioning what you thought was an iron-clad response? That should come into it as well, the evaluation of your specific situation and pros/cons as they apply to your lifestyle, social realities, financial realities, relationships, working life.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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    VIP Member Array LimaCharlie's Avatar
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    I would prefer the question to be: When do I have to use my gun? It is a last resort to save your life, a family member's life, or if you choose to get involved, someone else's life. If you want to use your gun, join one of the shooting sports.
    DanielC and Bekkers like this.
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    Start by understanding that the moment you draw your gun the life as you know it has changed and often not for the better. Even if found innocent in a trial civil court can take every thing you own.

    This is a question that requires something more than a blog on the internet. Deep inside each of us resides a basic animal passion to live. The fight you are capable of when that part of you comes out is often scary. As said before focus first on can I run can I find cover etc. Helping others is a personal decision I have chosen a course of action and so must you.

    Good luck and there is a book Title On Killing Author Col Dave Grossman worth a read in my opinion.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Another thing to review would be: The Deadly Force Triangle ... Ability/Opportunity/Jeopardy, as it relates to situations and the justifiability of the use of force. With most states' statutes on use-of-force, the A.O.J. principles represent a higher standard and an easy way to be pretty certain you're "clean" when confronting violence against you and others. But, as always, know your state's statutes cold ... with various levels of force, escalation, variations in the home/car or on someone else's property, variations with helping third parties, fleeing felons, etc.
    maxwell97 and tcox4freedom like this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  12. #12
    Member Array GatorGuy407's Avatar
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    Jon Gutmacher's book on Florida's gun laws should be required reading for anyone who gets their CWL. He is an attorney who deals with real cases and us is considered the expert in Florida on self defense cases.
    Eagleks likes this.

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Another thing to review would be: The Deadly Force Triangle ... Ability/Opportunity/Jeopardy, as it relates to situations and the justifiability of the use of force. With most states' statutes on use-of-force, the A.O.J. principles represent a higher standard and an easy way to be pretty certain you're "clean" when confronting violence against you and others. But, as always, know your state's statutes cold ... with various levels of force, escalation, variations in the home/car or on someone else's property, variations with helping third parties, fleeing felons, etc.
    Here's a good summary of the AOJ concept.

    UseofForce.us: AOJP
    "Yet this government never of itself furthered any enterprise, but by the alacrity with which it got out of the way... The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way."

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array GWarden's Avatar
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    When using deadly force, you must prove that your life or the life of another is in danger. That being said, not every fight is a gun fight. If you feel that you may not be able to defend yourself from someone larger, perhaps look into some martial arts training. You don't have to be a black belt to be able to defend yourself. Never use your gun as your main source of protection. It is a LAST resort. OC spray would be another ad tactic. Good luck. Be Safe

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array CommonCents's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    Just like on internet forums, lawyers, instructors and LEOs give bad advice too.

    ahhh yeah, but i'll take my chances with them rather than anonymous posters on a forum.

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