Another Potential Lethal Force Scenario

This is a discussion on Another Potential Lethal Force Scenario within the Home (And Away From Home) Defense Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I was on my bicycle tonight, about a mile and a half from my home, when I heard voices behind a long-empty home which auctioneer ...

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    Another Potential Lethal Force Scenario

    I was on my bicycle tonight, about a mile and a half from my home, when I heard voices behind a long-empty home which auctioneer friends of mine are soon running through an estate auction. The elderly woman who lived there had been evicted on a condemned building finding by the health department about a year ago, and died this past winter. The contents have been in the house since she moved. Thinking the voices I heard were my friends, I rode into the driveway and to the back of the house. A big auction sign is at the road in front of the property.

    Instead of my friends, I saw a man and woman trying to unstick their vehicle which had bogged down. Thinking they had been there looking at the house, I asked them if they needed help. The man was extremely agitated, evasive, and probably under the influence of drugs, but yes, could I help him push the car out? The woman was totally uncommunicative, seated in the drivers seat. They were away from the house, and I didn't see anything in their vehicle that would indicate they had burglarized the home, nor had I seen either of them near the home. When I got to the car, I saw the back door of the house had been kicked in, and there were broken panes of glass in the back yard. I was alone, on my bicycle, armed, and about five hundred yards from the nearest neighbor. I was within five feet of them when I saw that the house had likely been burglarized. What should I have done at that point? Again, I had seen them commit no actual crime.

    I'll leave this up for awhile before I describe how it played out.
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    Senior Member Array CWOUSCG's Avatar
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    Push them out, get the license plate number, call 911, wait for cops.

    "If someone gets into your house which would you rather have, a handgun or a phone? You can call the police if you want, and they’ll get there; and they’ll take a picture of your dead body."

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    Member Array sammeow's Avatar
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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    About all you can do

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    Ehhhh your stuck pretty deep there. Give me a couple min to go get my truck and Ill pull you out. Get the license no as you ride off "to go get the truck" and call LE while they wait for you to come back.

    They are already not going anywhere except on foot. You didnt see them do anything and they could actually not have done anything other than pulled in there for whatever reason and gotten stuck. LE can sort that out.

    Now if they turn the mess into a SD thing by trying to prevent you from going by force the whole situation changes and you do what you gotta do.
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    Senior Member Array patri0t's Avatar
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    Man asked for help, so I would call local LE with address & tag number of vehicle with description & would state folks need assistance + mention house appears to have been broken into (so LE doesn't walk into a 'possible problem' unknowingly), then I would finish my bike ride.
    Doubt I would ever give it another thought.
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    VIP Member Array StormRhydr's Avatar
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    Well, they are not very mobile. Their car is stuck, and likely they dont work out much. Im a biker myself, and expect you could have been mounted and gone pretty quick.

    No way would I put myself closer to them, once I saw the busted up door. Certainly not when they are as you described them "The man was extremely agitated, evasive, and probably under the influence of drugs, ....The woman was totally uncommunicative, seated in the drivers seat.'
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    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
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    My first instinct would be to create distance. Ghost has it right, I think.
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    I think Ghost nailed it.
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    Senior Member Array Navydude's Avatar
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    Yep. Ghost has it right on the money. Where can they go. Call LEOs and stay safe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
    Ehhhh your stuck pretty deep there. Give me a couple min to go get my truck and Ill pull you out. Get the license no as you ride off "to go get the truck" and call LE while they wait for you to come back.

    They are already not going anywhere except on foot. You didnt see them do anything and they could actually not have done anything other than pulled in there for whatever reason and gotten stuck. LE can sort that out.

    Now if they turn the mess into a SD thing by trying to prevent you from going by force the whole situation changes and you do what you gotta do.
    You were close to what I actually did. I got the license number, took long hard looks at the two individuals involved, and got on my bike after a half-hearted attempt to push them out. He asked me if I was from around there, which I denied, and I then left and rode in the opposite direction from my house. As soon as I got out of eyeshot, I stopped and called my friend the auctioneer with the license number and make of vehicle. I called him instead of 911 because he knew the address, which was missing from the mailbox. I then kept rolling east to a distance where I could still see the road in front of the house, and wait for the sheriff's department. Unfortunately, they managed to get their car out before the deputies arrived. Based on the license number and description, they were able to put a photo lineup together, and I IDed the woman based on that. She was apprehended a couple hours later by the Marion PD, so I don't know where it goes from here.

    I made the decision to work hard to avoid escalation as soon as I saw the deal. A couple knuckleheads stealing from an abandoned house to buy crack isn't something I want to involve myself physically. It's not my stuff, it's not my property, and I had no first-hand knowledge that they had actually committed felonies. Even if I had seen one of them exiting the premises, I probably would not have not played it any differently. Like you said, if they had tried to stop me, it would have been different. Being on my bicycle upped my risk, as well. Their SUV had me outweighed considerably.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
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    Member Array Norm66's Avatar
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    Well, I was going to say Ghost nailed it, and he basically did but after reading your report I think you nailed it first. Good on you.
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    Senior Member Array Fizban's Avatar
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    There is a distinct difference between self defense and those things associated with law enforcement or security. Typically the question in my mind is "must I defend myself right now?"... anything else can be handled by the Police via a phone call.
    Think like a man of action - Act like a man of thought

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    There is a distinct difference between self defense and those things associated with law enforcement or security. Typically the question in my mind is "must I defend myself right now?"... anything else can be handled by the Police via a phone call.
    My first thought when I saw the deal was "how do I prevent having to defend myself right now?". For all I knew, these two were willing to kill or die over the situation they had put themselves in.
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    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
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    Member Array dhuffman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    There is a distinct difference between self defense and those things associated with law enforcement or security. Typically the question in my mind is "must I defend myself right now?"... anything else can be handled by the Police via a phone call.
    If I can't run and/or hide then I'll fight. I'm not a big brawny man - just the opposite so my first instinct is to quote monty python "run away".

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Mike, I think you handled the situation right. These are the types of situation that IMO can get a carrier in trouble....
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    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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