This is a discussion on LEO .45 ACP Question? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; 45automatic colt pistol is the caliber for me. Having said that for duty I have been carrying a 40sw M&P and before that a Beretta ...
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45automatic colt pistol is the caliber for me.
Having said that for duty I have been carrying a 40sw M&P and before that a Beretta 9mm. I prefer the 40 but if I could choose my own duty gun it would be either a Tactical Springfield Armory XD in 45acp or a Glock 20 in 10mm. Back in the Early 90's in my state many L.E carried the 10mm which also is an awesome round.
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I think it was Guns Magazine where one of the writers took 9mm and 45 auto ball and shot at a WWII GI helmet. The 45 dented it, the 9mm went through it.I know that testing in the military showed that NATO 9mm ammo will penetrate a helmet at a much greater distance than .45 ball ammo will.
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I'd like to see more 10mm use among LEOs...Originally Posted by patrol
"You can't stop insane people from doing insane things by passing insane laws."-Penn Jillette
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"Why did Law Enforcement Agencies move away from .45 caliber guns?"
The .40 S&W, which dove tails many of the arguments for both the both the 9mm and the .45acp.
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The 40 is probably the best LE caliber ever devised. 40 cals are medium framed guns that fit most officers well. 40 ammo costs less than 45. 40 ammo weighs less than 45. The 40 hits harder than the 9. The 40 has good penetration but rarely overpenetrates. The muzzel blast, flash and recoil of the 40 is controllable for the "average" officer. There is your list.
I carry my Sig P220 on duty, I would not like to be forced away from my .45
@ 45% around here carry .40, 40% carry .45 and 15% carry something else.
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My department issues the Beretta 96FS for patrol. We have a smattering of SIG 229s in 357 SIG and Beretta 84F .380s for detectives. The huge majority of the departments guns are the .40 S&W Beretta pistols.
We are in the process of getting new duty weapons. Everyone in the department who is even remotely interested in guns wants to go with the .45 ACP. While the .45 ACP may not be the most popular law enforcement cartridge, its probably the most used one in this area. The problem for us is that we have a large stockpile of .40 S&W ammunition, and its somewhat cheaper for the department to buy in bulk. Therefore, we are going to stick with the .40 for duty weapons. The decision was made to go with the Glock 22 and 23, much to my chagrin, since I neither a fan of the Glock or the .40 S&W. Oh well, at least its free.
-Landric
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Yes, I could. Even I can't say that Glock makes a bad pistol, I just don't care for them. The chief did throw me a bone though, he ordered me a Glock 23 rather than the 22 everyone else in patrol is getting. The 23 fits my hand better than the 22, I asked for a 23 instead, and he got it for me. Our chief is just about as much of a gun nut as I am, so no complaining there.
As for free ammunition, its free when the department tells me I can go to the range. That is not nearly as often as I would like, but its still shooting for free. I'm looking quite forward to the transition to Glocks at the end of this month for one reason, 16 hours of salaried range time with free ammunition.
-Landric
"The Engine could still smile...it seemed to scare them" -Felix
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my department (a sheriff's office) issues the glock 21 in .45acp - a step in the right direction, IMHO. we used to use S&W .357 mag revolvers, then when the wonder 9s came out, they went to a S&W 5906, in 9mm. about four years ago, they switched back to the .45, in spite of the fact that the rest of the county and city PD units use glock .40 pistols.
ergonomics are great, but comfort can also be achieved through familiarity too. the .40 is an explosive, powerful round, but in my way of thinking, it's just not a .45...the round really hasn't changed much in 100 years, so they had to be doing something right. besides, i think the .40 recoil is a little more harsh than the .45 anyway. and while you get more rounds in a magazine with smaller diameter bullets, our department emphasizes accurate shot placement as opposed to sheer volume of fire, and that's an attitude i am glad to see is coming back in most jurisdictions these days.
reminds me of the legendary interview in which the reporter, noticing his m1911a1, asked the texas ranger why he carried a .45...his response, "because they don't make a .46," pretty much says it all.
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined" ~Patrick Henry
Yeah, actually, they do - the .460 S&W. They also make a .454 Casull, a .500 S&W, a .480 Ruger, a .50AE...... How many folks - never mind people who bear arms for a living - do you see carrying these calibers around?"because they don't make a .46,"
The idea that the .45 is significantly superior to any other common defensive caliber - while remaining low pressure and controllable in smallish handguns - is simply wishful thinking.
A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.
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not my quote, that was some texas ranger's answer, many years ago. you can't everything said as a literal example - everyone has a preference; 9mm, .357 sig, .40sw, .45, whatever. i'm in the .45 camp. the round is low pressure, recoil isn't terrible, it's very accurate, and 230 grains at 900 fps is a very potent greeting.
departments tend to carry full size more often than not, so while it may not be as fun in a small frame, the size and mass of large autos makes firing the .45 far more controllable than people like to believe. apart from that, marksmanship is key; it doesn't matter how fast the bullet, mild or harsh the recoil, energy transferred, etc., can be accomplished if you can't accurately put lead on target.
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined" ~Patrick Henry
Actually the .460 and the 454 Casull are .45's.
The only difference is the case length.
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Right, none of the cartridges mentioned were available (commercially) when Texas Ranger H. Joaquin Jackson made that now world famous quip.
"The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper
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