This is a discussion on FBI/Terror Task Force Raid within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Holger Or du jour, but I know what you meant. It was applicable, and sarcasm and straw men go quite well together. ...
Yep, that is a fine "Christian" group alright. Here is a link to their "Evil Jew" forum.
Phorum :: Evil Jew Forum
Their site is under attack:
ALL UNITS, THIS SITE IS UNDER ATTACK, HEAD TO BACK UP SITE!
From the WSJ:
DETROIT—Seven members of an anti-government militia group were arraigned in federal court here on Monday, charged with conspiring to kill a law-enforcement official in hopes of starting a "war" against the U.S. government.
Two others who were arrested over the weekend have yet to appear in court, and a 10th person believed involved in the matter remains at large.
The seven who were arraigned in court today were ordered held without bond until further hearings later this week. Arrests took place over the weekend, primarily Michigan, along with two in Ohio and another of an Indiana man who had fled to Illinois.
The group, known as Hutaree, planned to kill an unidentified local law-enforcement official in April and then attack local, state and federal officers who come to Michigan to attend the official's funeral, the U.S. Attorney for the Easter District of Michigan said in a statement.
According to an indictment of the nine individuals, which was unsealed on Monday, the group had planned to use homemade bombs and had practiced attacks and other military maneuvers with automatic weapons for more than a year.
After attacking the funeral, the group planned to retreat to a remote "rally point" from which Hutaree members would fight off an expected response by law enforcement, the U.S. attorney's office said in a statement. Hutaree hoped this would spark a wider uprising against the federal government.
The indictment identified the leader of the group as David Brian Stone, 45 years old, of Clayton, Mich. He is also known as "Joe Stonewall" and "Captain Hutaree," according to the indictment. Others included Mr. Stone's wife, Tina Stone, 44, and a son, Joshua Matthew Stone, 21, also of Clayton; David Brian Stone, Jr., 19, of Adrian, Mich.; Joshua Clough, 28, of Blissfield, Mich.; Michael Meeks, 40, of Manchester, Mich.; Thomas Piatek, 46, of Whiting, Ind.; Kristopher Sickles, 27, of Sandusky, Ohio; and Jacob Ward, 33, of Huron, Ohio.
Joshua Stone is still at large.
They are charged with seditious conspiracy, which carried a maximum penalty of 20 years in prison, as well as attempted use of weapons of mass destruction, teaching the use of explosive materials and possessing a firearm during a crime of violence.
Hutaree, a small, armed militia based out of rural Southeast Michigan, has not responded to emails for comment.
According to a Web site, HUTAREE.COM, the group was preparing for "the anti-Christ" and expected to "one day see its enemy and meet him on the battlefield." The site quotes passages of scripture alluding to battle and the loss of life, including a quote from John 15:13: "Greater love hath no man than this, that lay down his life for his friends." According to the site, Hutaree means "Christian warrior."
Outside federal court in Detroit on Monday, a woman who identified herself as David Brian Stone's ex-wife said shortly before his arraignment that she left him "four or five years ago" after she felt he'd become dangerous.
"When he went from handguns to big guns I said 'enough,' " said Donna Stone, 44, of Adrian, Mich. "He tried to bring me into it and I told him… no."
Also appearing outside the court was Brittany Bryant, 18, who identified herself as the fiancée of David Brian Stone, Jr.
FBI and other federal agents burst in her house in a trailer park on Saturday, put a gun to her head, and told her to leave her 6-month-old baby on a sofa until they'd secured her residence, she said. They were not "really rough" she said, but "they were looking for weapons, documents, any evidence."
She said her fiancé was not racist or violent. "We have Arab friends and colored friends," she said.
NRA Life Member
"But if they don't exist, how can a man see them?"
"You may think I'm pompous, but actually I'm pedantic... let me explain the difference."
"Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything."
here is the indictment:
the most serious thing I see is on pages 6 and 7:
Sounds terrible. If all the above is true, these are very bad people and they need to be locked up for a very long time.obtained information about such devices over the internet and emailed diagrams of such devices to a person he believed capable of manufacturing the devices...[to manfacture] four anti personnel IED to take with them...Captian Hutaree identified law enforcement officers in a specific community near his residence, and one officer in particular, as potential targets of attack
I enjoy firearms practicing and training, but I am not one of these "wackos". Conspiring to build IEDs and use them is serious stuff.
"a reminder that no law can replace personal responsibility" - Bill Clinton 2010.
Per news report posted by R&G:
"they are charged with seditious conspiracy, which carried a maximum penalty of 20 years in prison, "
I hope others take notice of the name of the charge--"seditious conspiracy."
TWENTY YEARS!!!! And that is on each count. They can stack. And should.
These alleged crimes are reprehensible and disgusting. If the allegations are true (and it seems that they are) then these people are sick, hateful and demented--and possibly insane (though that does not excuse anything). Thank God they were stopped before they were able to carry out their violent intentions and muder an innocent LEO in cold blood, and possibly many more.
That said, I'm sure the powers that be are happy with the timing of the raid. Goes right along with characterizing all conservatives as violent, racist nutjobs just before independents might otherwise hand the midterm election to the republicans.
pro-CZ's, pro-AR's, anti-CZAR's
Another hit for the state of michigan. These idiots deserve what they get.
Don"t let stupid be your skill set....
I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.
I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.
Veni, Vidi, Velcro
I have feeling this was a tiny group of people that were dreamers, talkers, and performers. Their 'plots' sound like some sick people daydreaming with an informant in the room. They stroke their egos by saying, or dreaming of, outrageous anti-government diatribes.
The implications are much larger than the three arrested. I believe this is going to be an ongoing trend in enforcement. The difference will be that they will go in unannounced with a small group of agents take people away on even flimsier charges and you may not hear a peep. Some will still be lauding the police as heroes up until they come to your house and charge you with sedition for being a member of an "extremist group".
"They are more of survivalist group and in an emergency they withdraw and stand their ground. They are actively training to be alongside Jesus," he said.
I wonder if Jesus will be armed with a Glock?
"That I cannot do."
"Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks."
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
Stay away from folks who advocate rebellion against the US and don't participate in such talk, and it is extremely unlikely anyone will come looking for you at your house to arrest you for seditious conspiracy
Btw, the conspiracy involved more than 3 people. Nine were arrested and one is being sought.
There is a difference between shouting "fire" in a burning theater and "fire" in one that isn't burning. Think about that a bit. It applies to the
folks who fantasize some manner of armed rebellion because they imagine their government to be tyrannical. Being nuts is no excuse for being a criminal.
+1I hope others take notice of the name of the charge--"seditious conspiracy."
Lots of folks are actually hoping for a civil war and/or anarchy. Some are actively agitating for civil war. I quit a site yesterday because folks on one forum of that site were talking favorably of civil war.
Sedition is distinguished from treason in that sedition does not imply any overt act; treason does. As such, sedition precedes treason, treason follows sedition.
Where the sedition is libelous, it is often referred to as seditious libel.
The US Code, at Title 18, §2384 (see also §2385), defines "seditious conspiracy" as:
"If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both."
What they were planning was basic terrorism. Good thing it was stopped. Not every criminal charge against a gun owner is due to the new world order conspiracy.
Honestly it sounds like there are some nuts with explosives that wanted automatic weapons and wanted to kill some police. So a religion was the reasoning behind there twisted beliefs, and it appears to be the religion of the majority of the people on this form. It does not sound like some massive conspiracy. There are plenty of violent religious people out there of faith. Violent Christians, violent Muslims, violent Sikhs, what the difference, it’s a bunch of nut jobs doing atrocities in the name of a “God”. I think instead of saying how “Christians would never do this”, or “it’s a conspiracy” we should be happy these crazies were captured.
FBI Gun Raid on Christian Fringe Group Huh, I seem to remember similar headlines the last time we had a Lib in office. Question? - Where were all these criminal gun toting Christain fringe groups for the 8 years in between? Sleeping I guess.
Randy Weaver must be having flashbacks right about now. The folks at Waco aren't, because they are all dead. At least they arrested these people, instead of killing them or members of their family. Seems like change is in the air and things are looking up.
Well, at least we now know who the bad guys are, just steer clear of Christians and guns and you'll be ok. (ooh yeah, I forgot, veterans are on the potential terrorist list too.) I better stay away from myself. lol
If this is all true, they deserve to be locked up, but past experiences lead me to expect that they may soon be free ala Mr. Weaver.
When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.