Training with Simunitions

This is a discussion on Training with Simunitions within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Part One... A few weeks ago I went to some of our yearly mandatory training, this time it included various scenarios with Glocks modified to ...

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Thread: Training with Simunitions

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    Training with Simunitions

    Part One...

    A few weeks ago I went to some of our yearly mandatory training, this time it included various scenarios with Glocks modified to shoot Simunitions. There were several scenarios and it they played out in various manners. The "bad guys" were all veteran officers and the scenes that they acted in were actual scenarios that had been encountered by various LEO's throughout the state.

    These scenarios had a twist to them. If you acted like you had been trained to, the outcome would be good on your part. If you deviated or did something stupid, you would get shot. For those that wonder what getting hit with Simunitions feels like, its a 9mm caliber paint-ball traveling somewhere around 800 fps. It hurts like heck and leaves a witness mark about the size of a quarter that you can show your friends for a couple of weeks. You have plenty of motivation to seek cover and not get hit. Trust me.

    The first scenes were with the patrol car. We used the city ballpark for actual traffic stops, and we were to do it just like we were doing it for real. We light the offender up, call the dispatcher and get what info we could from them and exit the vehicle. In the patrol vehicle with us was a training officer from the Arkansas State Police, all well known to us, to evaluate how and what we did, right or wrong. They didn't exit, but sat there and carefully watched.

    Scenario #1.

    Car runs a red light and you call it in and stop him. The Dispatcher informs that he has a couple of warrants from various counties. He' nice about the whole thing and is very cooperative. Too nice in fact.
    You make him assume the position, cuff him up and search him and place him in the patrol car. End of scenario.

    The State Police Officer goes over what you did right and wrong. I get complimented for a text book stop that went very well. Except for one minor issue...

    My prisoner who is now un-cuffed and standing beside me, removes a .380 KelTec pistol from behind his western belt buckle thats big enough to eat off of.

    My search, he tells me, was pretty good, but not good enough. My "prisoner" tells me that I actually felt the gun and he thought I was about to find it. Wrong. All I felt was a big belt buckle. As the night progresses, 14 officers go through the same scenario. All but one of them miss the gun.

    Scenario #2

    Man flees from an unknown suspected assault. We stop and go through the motions. Man exits vehicle at a high rate of speed with a large Bowie knife. I exit my vehicle, take cover behind the open door and issue commands to drop the knife. He stops. holding the knife, he's about 10 feet away. I've got the Glock pointing right at his head. I issue more commands, he's still got the knife. Now I've got 4 pounds of take-up on a 5 pound trigger and I tell him if he doesn't drop the knife right now I will kill him. He looks at me and drops the knife. I arrest him and the scene is over.

    Before the night is over...two officers fire and end the scene immediately. Two, officers, one which is me," arrest" the guy. The man with the knife "cuts" 6 officers and ends the scenario. He does this by saying" I need help" and "can you help me?". The sad part is that he jumps in the police cars of the other 4 officers and steals their cars. He tells me when it is over, that he felt like I was ready to shoot and that he didn't want to get shot in the face. I inform him that I nearly shot him in the face anyway.

    Although I could have done better, it was a successful outcome.

    Scenario #3.
    Possible murder suspect. I stop using felony stop procedures.
    I do it by the book. Car off, keys out. Hands out the window. Now right hand out, left hand opens door. Suspect exits vehicle hand straight up and looking forward. I inform him that any deviation will result in shots fired. He walks backward until I tell him to stop and kneel down with feet crossed. He places both hands on interlocked. head. I grab both hands and cuff him. End of scenario.

    Good outcome. By the time the night is over, 6 officers do the right thing and enact textbook felony stop. Two screw up, suspect jumps in car and takes off. Four officers get into a full fledged shoot out when suspect jumps out of car and engages. Two of the four take hits, supposedly less than lethal. Two win the fight outright. Two officers fail to get out of the car in time, suspect jumps out, runs at them firing into the windshield, ending the scenario...

    Now onto the building clearing scenarios, Part Two...
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  3. #2
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    Sims are great fun(!?), aren't they? I remember the first time I saw them as a junior enlisted man in Rgt. Safety gear was a balaclava and a set of "Earth, Wind, and Fire" goggles. I got shot in the throat right off the bat, giving me a nice bloody welt and a bit of a wheeze for the rest of the day... I never wanted to get shot by one (much less by a real round) again.

    With realistic scenarios (as it sounds like you are running), they are a "game changer" in the way we train and learn - as real as we can get and still have everyone go home at the end of the day. Can't wait to hear the rest of the story!
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    Part Two
    Scenario 1#
    We are two man teams now. We get a domestic battery call. Few facts, we don't really know, we just show up.

    Get to the door, a young man says his brother has been drinking and has a gun and is threatening to kill himself. Can we help him?

    We remove the young brother from the house and encounter a man sitting in a chair holding a gun to his head with one hand and a fifth of Whiskey in the other. We tell him to drop the gun, seeking what little cover a wall has to offer while maintaining a firing stance on him. We talk for a few minutes, he gets agitated and calls for his brother. Another man walks into the room with a shotgun and says " I wont let him take you!" and aims the shotgun at my partner. I shoot hitting him twice in the chest. Man in the chair drops his gun, runs to brother on the floor. While I cover, my partner cuffs him.
    End of scenario.

    My heart is pounding, and I cant believe how fast it went down. Once second we are conversing, the next second I have shot twice and barely remember taking a sight picture. Good outcome, other than having to shoot. Good critique by ASP and acting officers. Half of the officers in this scene got shot, the other half faired well.

    Scenario 2#
    Active shooter call. Bank robbery in progress shots fired.
    We enter in the building, 4 or us have responded and we do a 4 man stack. I am number 2. We clear each room until we get to where we need to be. We do it quickly, shots are being fired so we move fast. I see movement, slice the pie and see a man holding a gun to another mans head. I tell him to drop the gun and he aims it at me and shoots. I put two into his face-mask and one into his neck. Number One officers moves and engages another shooter in the next room. End of scenario. I might add that we had to step over two "bodies" to get to were we needed to be.

    Good critique...other than me telling shooter to drop the gun, which I suppose I did out of habit. In active shooters scenarios, no verbal is used or needed, you go in with one purpose and one purpose only... to kill the shooter. I did that, but needlessly alerted other shooter to our position which he engaged and was taken out by no.1 officer. We did not know how many shooters there was and had to clear the whole building before the scenario was called.

    Lots of shooting in this one. One team of four was eliminated when they failed to clear the first closet in the first room. The closet was a two door closet with no doors that looked for the most part, empty. It wasn't. The shooter shot the whole four man stack in the back as they entered into the second room.
    Some officers got into a full fledged battle with a few shooting the mag in the gun and the two in their belt. Lots of officers took hits to the legs, arms and a couple in the head. It was pretty intense.

    Scenario #3

    Battery in progress.

    Two man teams. We enter and see two males in a knock down drag out and one is using a stick to beat a guy on the ground. I draw and tell him to drop the stick. He throws it at me and I dodge it. I tell him to put his hands on the wall and not to move. He does exactly what I tell him...except that there is a Remington 870 leaning on the wall where I put him...that I had never even seen. I holster my Glock, grab my cuffs,grab his left arm and he pulls away, grabs the shotgun and tries to bring it up. Instinctively, I draw and shoot hitting him center of mass in the back. The scenario is ended.

    Bad outcome. I put him up against the wall right up against the shotgun. He went for it and I shot him. Had I seen the gun, more than likely he wouldn't have had a chance to shoot. I did everything right except for situation awareness. I didn't see it until it was almost too late. I am not the only one. Before the night is over, most officers get "shot". I,along with the participants, were amazed at speed of my draw. The guy that I shot tells me that he specifically waited for my gun to be holstered before he picked up the shotgun. I honestly did not even remember drawing and shooting and it was pure muscle memory that did it. Most officers that try to draw that night do not get off the shot. Although I "won" the scenario by living through it, better situational awareness might have resulted in no one getting shot.

    All in all, it was a pretty intense day of training that lasted about 8 hours. I learned alot. The speed at which bad things can happen still amazes me and I've been doing this stuff for over 10 years. The little things can make a difference between life and death. We have some really good officers that are lacking in weapons skills. Several fumbled the draw and lost. Some got hung up on seat belts when exiting the car. Some were too nice, and didn't take control. Some didn't want to believe what was happening. Others were too trusting in their approach. Some were downright deficient in their duties. Hopefully all of us learned something and there were many lessons to be learned.

    Hopefully, those that take the time to read these scenarios can appreciate the speed of bad things that can take place in the blink of an eye. Hopefully some will think and come to realize that just because you can shoot the center out of target that does not move or shoot back does not make one prepared for the real encounters that take place, somewhere, everyday.
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

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    I'm always the bad guy in statewide training. Its great fun for me. I get to go do this again this summer at the state's academy.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    I've been the badguy too. It is lots of fun...as long as you dont get "tore up".
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

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    I've been tore up a few times.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Sounds intense. THANKS for your service.

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    I love the training too. We do it twice every year the same day as our firearms qual/training.
    Our sims shoothouse has a door to pull vehicles inside and do traffic stops.

    I got lit up by the SWAT guys in the academy when we did some of this same type of training. Bruises on my legs were visible for 2 weeks.
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    very good write up I am applying for serveral LE agencies right now, this gives me a nice little look at some of the training
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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Training with Sims is _excellent_. IMHO.

    It's the next best thing to being shot for real, just below being shot by a paintball marker in felt pain/discomfort by most folks view.

    I wish this manner of training were available to civilians as an advanced combat training tool, clearly under controlled and restricted conditions.
    Sadly the cost of Simunition brand ammo is exorbitant. UTM 'Manmarker' product is better and less expensive per case but Simunition has the lions share of market share.

    If ever you get the opportunity to train in a Sims program do it. Even if you have to pay our way through, as I've done thrice.
    It's well worth the money. IMHO.

    You'll learn far more than with anything else including run & gun games such as IDPA (not all that realistic).

    - Janq
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    Everywhere I've looked you had to be an LEO to get Simunitions.

    Can us homeboys actually buy it without having to jump through lots of hoops?

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    Now I know why every time I go thru metal detectors I have to turn my belt buckle inside out. And I don't even wear big Rodeo Trophy Belt Buckles.
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    I participated in sims training once during a fleet security training class at FLETC. Great fun and even better training/learning experience. I had those quarter-sized 'battle-scars' for two weeks after!
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrandBob View Post
    Everywhere I've looked you had to be an LEO to get Simunitions.

    Can us homeboys actually buy it without having to jump through lots of hoops?
    yep, here ya go:
    Streichers.com Police Equipment Supply Headquarters - 800-367-3763

    I think they are currently out of stock of the rounds though
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    Sim training is the best training I have found yet. Nothing beats training with live people, live rounds, and no one gets dead.

    Last time we were training with them, it was active shooter scenarios, (in this particular scenario) I was not on the entry team, or a BG, just a role player. I got shot by a member of the entry team, and yes, he shot me on purpose.

    Glad to hear lots of departments/agencies are participating in such valuable training.

    Thanks for the post HotGuns

    Sigmanluke
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