How good is your Taser

How good is your Taser

This is a discussion on How good is your Taser within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Martinsville police kill knife-wielding man after chase - Roanoke.com Martinsville police kill knife-wielding man after chase By Amanda Codispoti | The Roanoke Times Martinsville police ...

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  1. #1
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    How good is your Taser

    Martinsville police kill knife-wielding man after chase - Roanoke.com

    Martinsville police kill knife-wielding man after chase
    By Amanda Codispoti | The Roanoke Times

    Martinsville police shot a man to death today after he pulled a knife in a supermarket, led police on a two-mile chase, ignored at least four police Taser darts and attacked an officer with a knife, the city manager said.

    The man, whose identity was withheld by authorities until his family is notified, was pronounced dead at Martinsville Memorial Hospital.

    The chase began after police were summoned to the Kroger supermarket on Commonwealth Boulevard for a report of a man threatening a clerk with a knife, said Clarence Monday, the Martinsville manager. The suspect repeatedly stabbed the driver's window of an officer's car, Monday said, and ignored two high-voltage Taser darts before fleeing in a car.

    The suspect wrecked after a two-mile pursuit into Henry County and ran, said Monday. Police shot the man twice more with Taser darts and as he threatened a police officer with the knife, another officer fatally shot him, Monday said.

    "At this point and time I have every reason to believe the officers acted in an appropriate and professional manner," Monday said in a statement.
    I need to keep this story for the next time an anti-gun post that deadly force is no longer need.
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  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    If he has a knife and is within the 21' zone I am not going to deploy my taser. I am going to combat deadly force with deadly force. As is noted in your post the taser was ineffective againsts this particular subject. The taser is not a response to deadly force and is not taught as such.
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  3. #3
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    Taser is a very hit or miss tool. It is far from the end all weapon people who do not know better think that it is. Sometimes, it is actually hard to use it correctly in order to have the desired effect; you actually have to know what you are doing.
    I just used my Taser yesterday on a combative drunk and the probes had no effect. I needed to find another way to complete the circuit; I certainly did that.
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  4. #4
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    Tasers are great tools and I think they've helped police out a lot. However, they obviously aren't always effective. I got to be part of a demonstration once and was the only one of the group to not be completely disabled by the taser. I asked the LEOs how many people it's that ineffective against and he straight up told me, they just don't work on some people.
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  5. #5
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    The taser had no problem working on me.
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  6. #6
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    this is a good example of why police need multiple tools and don't depend on any one for everything

    we recently had a transient break into a house to sleep, officer confronts the guy in the living room and taser is deployed when he turns aggressive.....guy has good probe hits and spread...he takes 3 5-second rides and doesn't go down....after the 3rd ride he looked straight at the officer and said that hurt and pulled out the top probe and swung at officer....he then got 6 baton strikes on the legs with no effect, tried to run out the front door, officer kicked door closed on guys hand repeatedly trying to prevent his escape, but he gets out and foot chase goes for a few blocks before he finally gets tackled and arrested

    hotguns.....it worked perfectly fine on me too
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    Senior Member Array canav844's Avatar
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    I once heard that any less than lethal use of force, should be treated as being potentially lethal and therefore meet all the same criteria as lethal use of force before deployed, and because it meets those criteria and doesn't always work it should be simultaneously covered by a lethal option (firearm).

    Stories like this show that the technology is not perfect and does not work on all people, just like OC does not work on 15% of the population and many intoxicated individuals. Part of using less than lethals is being prepared if they do not subdue.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by canav844 View Post
    I once heard that any less than lethal use of force, should be treated as being potentially lethal and therefore meet all the same criteria as lethal use of force before deployed, and because it meets those criteria and doesn't always work it should be simultaneously covered by a lethal option (firearm).

    Stories like this show that the technology is not perfect and does not work on all people, just like OC does not work on 15% of the population and many intoxicated individuals. Part of using less than lethals is being prepared if they do not subdue.
    what you heard was wrong
    OC/taser are deadly force on the use of force continuum (deadly force being baton or other object striking head/neck, firearm, vascular neck restraint)
    OC/taser are justified when using hands would be justified (this is the purpose of the taser....to prevent injury to officer/suspect to get them to comply rather than physical altercation),
    they are not treated as potentially lethal force (unless used improperly) nor do they meet the same criteria as using deadly force, only use of deadly force meets the criteria for using deadly force

    you are correct about all the toys don't work on all the people, we've had people take a whole can of OC and just stand there blinking their eyes still wanting to fight, had taser be ineffective, and baton strikes not hit properly or person wasn't effected by the nerve impulse
    this is why we have to be prepared to use other things, kicks, strikes, all out butt kicking, whatever it takes to get someone incustody
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Array canav844's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 64zebra View Post
    what you heard was wrong
    OC/taser are deadly force on the use of force continuum (deadly force being baton or other object striking head/neck, firearm, vascular neck restraint)
    OC/taser are justified when using hands would be justified (this is the purpose of the taser....to prevent injury to officer/suspect to get them to comply rather than physical altercation),
    they are not treated as potentially lethal force (unless used improperly) nor do they meet the same criteria as using deadly force, only use of deadly force meets the criteria for using deadly force
    I think a lot of it was a combination of it was about 5 years ago, and the technology was the new thing, technology wasn't as proven and those new things tend to make folks that have been doing the job without it reluctant to add more weight to their duty belt; and so the particular instructor went off on their personal opinion.

    And I know there are quite a few agencies out there that are yet to add the taser as an item in their toolbox, though budget and training play a significant part of that role.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by canav844 View Post
    I think a lot of it was a combination of it was about 5 years ago, and the technology was the new thing, technology wasn't as proven and those new things tend to make folks that have been doing the job without it reluctant to add more weight to their duty belt; and so the particular instructor went off on their personal opinion.

    And I know there are quite a few agencies out there that are yet to add the taser as an item in their toolbox, though budget and training play a significant part of that role.
    very true on all points
    I can truly say that both times I've used my taser it prevented the suspect from getting injured causing more overtime for officers/time out of service, saves money from city having to pay for them to be at the hospital for said injuries, and kept me and other officers from getting injured. It paid for itself the first time I used it.
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  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    Tasers work best when the darts have a good amount of spread. At typical self-defense distances, the darts will be too close together to get the whole central nervous system involved, which means the Taser will be just be a pain compliance tool. I last deployed a Taser a couple of weeks ago, and the range was too close for the darts to spread more than 6"-8" apart. We had to FIGHT that fool!

    Yes, I did use the three-point technique, to try to zap his CNS, but it only worked for brief seconds, until the third point of contact was broken, and we were back to rolling on the pavement. FWIW, this guy was unarmed, but stronger than either me or my partner. Had be been armed, he would have been assigned a few new sets of .40 orifices.

  12. #12
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    I think this situation is an extreme case, tasers are usually very effective. I personally have been tasered (as part of a LEO training program, though i am not LEO), even if i could resist the pain, the electricity contracts every muscle at the same time and I just dropped. The article really doesn't say the probes penetrated, it seems likely that they either missed or maybe he had thick/heavy clothing preventing penetration or as the example 64zebra showed, he may have pulled probes out. But in any case these officers acted exactly as they should have and even showed more restraint than most would.

  13. #13
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    Good news!

    ... LEO justified in shooting!

    Martinsville officer justified in fatal shooting of knife-swinging attacker, prosecutor says - Roanoke.com

    Martinsville officer justified in fatal shooting of knife-swinging attacker, prosecutor says
    Officer Douglas Graham's action saved a fellow officer from injury or death, Henry County prosecutor says.

    A Martinsville police officer saved a fellow officer's life with the "completely justified" fatal shooting of a knife-swinging, mentally ill man, the Henry County commonwealth's attorney said today.

    Officer Douglas Graham shot Donald Barry Minter on April 29 after the 61-year-old pulled a hunting knife on a grocery store clerk, attacked a police car with the bone-handled weapon, led officers on an 80-mph chase, ignored three bursts of high-voltage Taser darts and finally raised the blade to attack another police officer, Commonwealth's Attorney Bob Bushnell said in a letter summarizing his investigation.

    "Graham was completely justified in shooting Minter," Bushnell said in the letter, noting that Minter had shrugged off Officer Anita Sowers' Taser darts, swung the knife at her and raised the weapon to attack. "Indeed, had Graham hesitated or not shot at all, it is virtually certain that Minter would have killed or seriously injured Sowers."

    Minter suffered from schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, his brother, David Minter, told the commonwealth's attorney. He hadn't taken medicine for the disorders for more than three years and his condition had been deteriorating, Bushnell's letter said.

    "Donald Minter died not because he was a bad man, but because he was a sick man whose failure to take his medications resulted in conduct that gave the police no option but to shoot him," Bushnell wrote.

    The prosecutor called on the General Assembly to enact legislation to provide monitoring of people diagnosed with serious mental disorders, "which if untreated, create a substantial risk of violence."

    The police confrontation with Minter began after he paid a Kroger supermarket clerk $40 for $65 worth of groceries and cut her telephone cord with his hunting knife when she called for help, the letter said. In the parking lot of the store, on Commonwealth Boulevard in Martinsville, he attacked a police car with the knife, ignored darts from Taser guns, nearly struck two police officers and fled in his car.

    Officers in three police cars and a city animal control pickup truck chased Minter about two miles. When Minter slammed on his brakes and turned, Graham rammed Minter's car and forced it off the road, Bushnell's letter said. Sowers' car, following close behind, smashed into the driver's side of Minter's car.
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