US Army Suppressing Soldier's 2nd Amendment Rights, OFF Base (Merged) - Page 3

US Army Suppressing Soldier's 2nd Amendment Rights, OFF Base (Merged)

This is a discussion on US Army Suppressing Soldier's 2nd Amendment Rights, OFF Base (Merged) within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; There was talk of doing away with the requirement when I retired but hadn't happened then. I guess someone finally figured out that it never ...

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Thread: US Army Suppressing Soldier's 2nd Amendment Rights, OFF Base (Merged)

  1. #31
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    There was talk of doing away with the requirement when I retired but hadn't happened then. I guess someone finally figured out that it never did any good to take up Pass & ID time processing firearm paperwork that lead to nothing.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
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  2. #32
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    It's funny, but when I lived in base housing I never owned any firearms, tho kept some for two friends. They were registered as belonging to me, but I was upfront w/the SP's (this was several years ago at Holloman AFB) that they weren't mine, but was told to go ahead and "claim" them as such. Now, you don't even have to worry about it.

    BTW, you can purchase firearms now at my BX, tho can't purchase ammunition on the same day you purchase a firearm (or multiples). I think it's only one of two bases where you can do such, the other being Elmendorf, or so I've been told. Allegedly, they'll give it a year here and if there are no major issues, they'll look at opening similar counters at bases w/new BX's in the future due to the need to have a completely secure room that meets DoD requirements for weapons storage.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    At every AF base I was ever stationed, any firearms stored "on base or in off-base military housing" had to be registered with the Security Police. I had no objection to that--their house, their rules. It also gave me a handy list of models, makes, and ser. #s. Whether that policy still exists, I can't say. I retired in '91.

    At no time was there ever any restrictions on off-base, off-duty carrying or use. Any violation of state or Federal firearm law, however, could have resulted in military disciplinary action.

    Any "civilized" society has rules and guidelines to follow. Anyone who feels there should be no controls on firearms should spend a few years where all firearms are prohibited, or somewhere that there is no firearm control
    .
    I only had to register my firearms when I moved into base housing....not when I lived off-base.....oh...and I have the BTDT t-shirt...and I would much rather be in VA than here in Europe...
    Last edited by SIGguy229; May 28th, 2010 at 04:47 PM.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    At no time was there ever any restrictions on off-base, off-duty carrying or use. Any violation of state or Federal firearm law, however, could have resulted in military disciplinary action.
    I'm glad you never had to go through anything like that. Are you willing to help out the guys currently serving, or are you going to ignore us because this doesn't affect you personally?

    Any "civilized" society has rules and guidelines to follow. Anyone who feels there should be no controls on firearms should spend a few years where all firearms are prohibited, or somewhere that there is no firearm control.
    I never said "no" rules. I just ask that I be allowed to follow the same standard as everyone else as opposed to being subject to the whims of a single commander who is probably an anti-gun politician.

    Furthermore, the remaining recommendations from the Ft Hood shooting are due to be implemented in June, according to what I read at CNN's website. Anybody want to bet there won't be anything about privately owned firearms?
    I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth.--Steve McQueen

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griffworks View Post
    It's funny, but when I lived in base housing I never owned any firearms, tho kept some for two friends. They were registered as belonging to me, but I was upfront w/the SP's (this was several years ago at Holloman AFB) that they weren't mine, but was told to go ahead and "claim" them as such. Now, you don't even have to worry about it.

    BTW, you can purchase firearms now at my BX, tho can't purchase ammunition on the same day you purchase a firearm (or multiples). I think it's only one of two bases where you can do such, the other being Elmendorf, or so I've been told. Allegedly, they'll give it a year here and if there are no major issues, they'll look at opening similar counters at bases w/new BX's in the future due to the need to have a completely secure room that meets DoD requirements for weapons storage.
    Camp Lejuene MCX, Eglin AFB BX, USMC MCX on Norfolk Naval Base all sell guns.
    You may now carry on with your absurd non-directional bantering.
    Yocan

  6. #36
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    Eielson in Fairbanks does, too.
    I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth.--Steve McQueen

  7. #37
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    OK I'm missing something here...

    namely "What does on base restrictions, registration, sales, etc have to do with this bill.

    As I see it, the intent of the OP was 2A off base.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by A1C Lickey View Post
    There must have been something in the water then because I remember being forced to register all of my personal firearms in June or July of 2005. This occurred at Luke AFB, AZ. They also asked about our training and whether we carried or not.
    Really? Did they tell you why they thought they needed that information? or was it an AETC "safety" issue? If I'm not living on base, there is NO NEED to register anything with SFS...I probably would have told them I own firearms...I may or may not tell them I carry...I would tell them the training I attended........oh, how I hate AETC (I think the acronym was: Again, Everyone Treated like Children)
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    namely "What does on base restrictions, registration, sales, etc have to do with this bill.
    Nothing.

    As I see it, the intent of the OP was 2A off base.
    Precisely.
    I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth.--Steve McQueen

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herknav View Post
    I'm glad you never had to go through anything like that. Are you willing to help out the guys currently serving, or are you going to ignore us because this doesn't affect you personally?


    I never said "no" rules. I just ask that I be allowed to follow the same standard as everyone else as opposed to being subject to the whims of a single commander who is probably an anti-gun politician.

    Furthermore, the remaining recommendations from the Ft Hood shooting are due to be implemented in June, according to what I read at CNN's website. Anybody want to bet there won't be anything about privately owned firearms?
    I thought I was clear to begin with: this, what I consider an unauthorized intrusion into the rights of a military member when "off base," needs to be confronted, and the the best place is to start with the Inspector General's office and your elected congressional representatives. With a lack of surpport from either of those, there are other judicial avenues that could be pursued. The stated bill is only duplicating what is already presented in the Constitution.

    I don't believe any general can "lawfully" order a serviceman, (except in extreme circumstances such as the indivdual is awaiting trial for a crime) not to carry a firearm in a legally perscribed manner when off base and off duty (yes, there is off-duty time) any more than the general can order you to vote only for a Republican or purchase gasoline only at a certain name-brand station.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I thought I was clear to begin with: this, what I consider an unauthorized intrusion into the rights of a military member when "off base," needs to be confronted, and the the best place is to start with the Inspector General's office and your elected congressional representatives.
    ....
    I agree.

    So the question is have we all contacted our "elected congressional representatives."

    I have!

    Second question:

    Have we all communicated this need to contact our "elected congressional representatives" to our RKBA friends, members of other RKBA Web sites, the local RKBA groups to which we belong.

    I have!!!
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    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I thought I was clear to begin with...
    Yeah, you think it's a stupid idea. Got it. For all I know, you still believe that I'm making all of this up, as you insinuated in Post #10.

    My question is this, "If you think one guy should contact his congressman, why should we all contact all of our congressmen?"

    My question in my previous post still stands--Are you willing to contact your Senator? I don't care if you ask him to support the bill. I just want you to bring heat on him for this issue.
    I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth.--Steve McQueen

  13. #43
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    The rule in question:

    Early in my career, I learned not to take the word of even the old-timers in regards as to what the rules and regulations said. I found the info given to me orally by the "experts" to be incorrect in the majority of cases. I didn't make E-8 by listening to what others told me was gospel.

    Therefore, I present a copy and paste section of the USARAK regulation in question (provided in an earlier reply). Short of pasting the appendix covering Privately Owned Firearms, I would like to point out that it concerns only firearms within the USARAK contonment areas or the installations. Nowhere does it make any reference to use or control of firearms while off military property.

    USARAK Pamphlet 600-2
    E-3
    APVR-RUPM
    SUBJECT: Privately Owned Firearms Policy (CG/CofS Policy Statement #0-17)
    f. Privately owned firearms will not be concealed on the person. Authority granted by the State of Alaska to carry a concealed firearm is NOT valid on USARAK installations .

    Having read this, it seems that the rule of no CC for service members off-base is a mis-interpretation of the actual rule and has grown to be legend by those who have not read the actual reulations in print. Nothing in this regulation prohibits CC by military members off base. Perhaps the general in question has mis-read or (most likely) been mis-informed of what the regulation states, and that matter, if still the current opinion, is what should be addressed.

    I'd be more than willing to review any more current regulation on this matter is someone wishes to post a link.

    During my 20 years in the service, despite what I considered minor constraints to my Constitutional rights, I never felt more safe anywhere than I did while on base or living in base housing. I consider the event at Ft. Hood to be a most unfortunate anomally, which possibly indicates a more thorough screening for firearms in large gatherings such as occured at Hood. I would trade the peace and security of base housing (but not the facilities!) with the reality of the civilian world in a heartbeat.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    Second question:

    Have we all communicated this need to contact our "elected congressional representatives" to our RKBA friends, members of other RKBA Web sites, the local RKBA groups to which we belong.
    I'm trying, and getting quite a lot of pushback on various boards. Military members are an insignificant percentage of the voting population to make a difference in this by ourselves.
    I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth.--Steve McQueen

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Early in my career, I learned not to take the word of even the old-timers in regards as to what the rules and regulations said. I found the info given to me orally by the "experts" to be incorrect in the majority of cases. I didn't make E-8 by listening to what others told me was gospel.
    Fair enough.

    Having read [GO 0-17], it seems that the rule of no CC for service members off-base is a mis-interpretation of the actual rule and has grown to be legend by those who have not read the actual reulations in print. Nothing in this regulation prohibits CC by military members off base. Perhaps the general in question has mis-read or (most likely) been mis-informed of what the regulation states, and that matter, if still the current opinion, is what should be addressed.

    I'd be more than willing to review any more current regulation on this matter is someone wishes to post a link.
    As I mentioned in Post #27, the prohibition on CC and vehicle carry is actually GO 0-20. (Same link) Sorry for the confusion.
    I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth.--Steve McQueen

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