U.S. closes part of Arizona to Americans - Page 7

U.S. closes part of Arizona to Americans

This is a discussion on U.S. closes part of Arizona to Americans within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Rollo So If I grab a gun and go to Canada does that mean the U.S is invading Canada? What If I ...

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  1. #91
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
    So If I grab a gun and go to Canada does that mean the U.S is invading Canada? What If I take 10 friends? 20? 100? What if a bunch of drug dealers from Detroit run drugs into Canada while armed, does that mean the U.S is invading Canada?

    Don't get me wrong, I think we should employ the military to deal with these people but we need to use them to do it because all other parties involved seem to be ill equipped to deal with, NOT because it's a invasion.
    Check out post #49 for the definition of invasion.

    If you don't like the word what would you use? Expedition, vacation,visit,pilgramige ,quest?


  2. #92
    VIP Member Array friesepferd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig35seven View Post
    FOX news made a fictitious story out of this. I have no doubt that the signs are real and the problem is real. We certainly need to get this problem under control. However, FOX made completely false statements including... "Obama gave parts of Arizona to Mexico" is a ridiculous inflammatory statement that is designed to enrage and incite anger in people.

    This type of story is pure hype designed by FOX to get viewers to watch their shows. The angry right wing sit salivating like Pavlov's dog for the next tasty pack of lies and FOX knows it. (BTW...Nazis will be marching down your street soon according to Glenn Beck so be sure to tune in.)

    I'm shocked how gullible people are. (This includes the left wing.) The far right takes anything FOX says and then, without any question, swallow it hook line and sinker. They run with it and spread the message as if it were gospel. Hate mongering at its best. I don't believe this is a good thing for our country.

    I don't know about the rest of you but when someone tells me outright lies I will lose my trust in them. I'll take what they say in the future with much more scrutiny. Again, that goes for both Left and Right news sources However, I find FOX to be the most egregious offender.
    Ok... so you believe there is a problem. you believe that the signs are there.. that americas are strongly encouraged not to enter a rather large section of american soil.
    THATS A PROBLEM! and a big one.
    Maybe you view fox's story as 'overdone'... you think they made too big of a deal of it... but fictitious? I call bs.
    They tell the news. any place that gives news is going to make a big deal of every bit of news, thats kinda their job. and honestly i think they have a right to make a big deal of this one.
    Ok. you say that fox said "Obama gave parts of Arizona to Mexico". Could you please provide me that reference? I dont like to take anything out of context.
    Looking at that one statement alone, yea, that may be a little much for a news station to say, but i dont completely disagree. No, Obama did not directly sign some paper giving mexico part of AZ... duh. But due to the lack of federal help with the immigration problem, AZ is having a hard time keeping control of their land, and that is what is meant by that statement. It could have been worded better, but the facts are still there. This is not some false made up story. If you would like I'll have a friend of mine drive down and take a picture of the sign for you.
    Wo die Notwehr aufhört, fängt der Mord an
    (Murder begins where self-defense ends)
    Georg Büchner

  3. #93
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig35seven View Post
    Listen...WE ARE ON THE SAME TEAM. I'm in total agreement that this is a HUGE problem that needs to be addressed ASAP. I think it's moving much too slowly. We are in total agreement. I would like to see the Army put into action.

    What I'm saying is FOX reported a story that had many false statements that was manufactured to create headlines. They lied. Once again they fire up the viewers to gain ratings. They made the story much more inflammatory.

    #1. Biggest lie... Obama is "giving a major strip of the U.S back to Mexico"

    #2. Closing the park all along the U.S. border

    #3. "Closed the park 3 counties deep. Well into Arizona." "Closed North of Tucson 80 miles deep."

    None of these statements are true and did nothing more than cause chaos. Look what happened here. It worked just as they planned.
    You have a problem with Fox, fine. But by discounting their story as lies you come across as disbelieving the true extant of the problem.

  4. #94
    VIP Member Array friesepferd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig35seven View Post
    Listen...WE ARE ON THE SAME TEAM. I'm in total agreement that this is a HUGE problem that needs to be addressed ASAP. I think it's moving much too slowly. We are in total agreement. I would like to see the Army put into action.

    What I'm saying is FOX reported a story that had many false statements that was manufactured to create headlines. They lied. Once again they fire up the viewers to gain ratings. They made the story much more inflammatory.

    #1. Biggest lie... Obama is "giving a major strip of the U.S back to Mexico"

    #2. Closing the park all along the U.S. border

    #3. "Closed the park 3 counties deep. Well into Arizona." "Closed North of Tucson 80 miles deep."

    None of these statements are true and did nothing more than cause chaos. Look what happened here. It worked just as they planned.
    not saying your not right at this point in time, but again would really like referances to all 3 things you said there... and already explained my position on #1. I think you are just misinterpreting what they are trying to say.. but still need to read the context.
    Wo die Notwehr aufhört, fängt der Mord an
    (Murder begins where self-defense ends)
    Georg Büchner

  5. #95
    Senior Member Array Sig35seven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by friesepferd View Post
    not saying your not right at this point in time, but again would really like referances to all 3 things you said there... and already explained my position on #1. I think you are just misinterpreting what they are trying to say.. but still need to read the context.
    I got it from the first post in this thread...I watched the video and listened to what she said. There is intentional misleading and I have not misinterpreted anything.

    Giving Part of U.S. to Mexico? - Video - FoxNews.com

  6. #96
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig35seven View Post
    Listen...WE ARE ON THE SAME TEAM. I'm in total agreement that this is a HUGE problem that needs to be addressed ASAP. I think it's moving much too slowly. We are in total agreement. I would like to see the Army put into action.

    What I'm saying is FOX reported a story that had many false statements that was manufactured to create headlines. They lied. Once again they fire up the viewers to gain ratings. They made the story much more inflammatory.

    #1. Biggest lie... Obama is "giving a major strip of the U.S back to Mexico"

    #2. Closing the park all along the U.S. border

    #3. "Closed the park 3 counties deep. Well into Arizona." "Closed North of Tucson 80 miles deep."

    None of these statements are true and did nothing more than cause chaos. Look what happened here. It worked just as they planned.
    Hmmm......

    FOXNews.com - Uptick in Violence Forces Closing of Parkland Along Mexico Border to Americans

  7. #97
    Senior Member Array Sig35seven's Avatar
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    In the video she also says there is a "MASSIVE STRIP OF THE SOUTHWEST" being given away.

    Give me a break. If this isn't hype I don't know what is.

  8. #98
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig35seven View Post
    In the video she also says there is a "MASSIVE STRIP OF THE SOUTHWEST" being given away.

    Give me a break. If this isn't hype I don't know what is.


    My take is you haven't visited or been to Arizona so you have no clue what you are talking about. The smuggling lanes out here where the danger is are larger than some US states. You WILL get shot at out here if you run into a drug smuggling op. Count on it.

    it is being given away because the Sheriff does not have the manpower and the logistics to patrol it, so it is free to roam at will.

    Where are the feds? Giving it away. guarding Iraq's borders and not our own

  9. #99
    Senior Member Array Sig35seven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    My take is you haven't visited or been to Arizona so you have no clue what you are talking about. The smuggling lanes out here where the danger is are larger than some US states. You WILL get shot at out here if you run into a drug smuggling op. Count on it.

    it is being given away because the Sheriff does not have the manpower and the logistics to patrol it, so it is free to roam at will.

    Where are the feds? Giving it away. guarding Iraq's borders and not our own
    I have no clue? I handle the procurement contract for the U.S. Border Patrol for all the heavy equipment for the fence project. I have been all along the fence line from California all the way to Texas. There are some VERY dangerous areas and this is a very serious situation. I am NOT down playing the seriousness of this matter. However, most of what FOX said was BS hype.

  10. #100
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Yep you have no clue. Seriously.

  11. #101
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    re: 64Zebra ceding territory has a context and meaning

    Quote Originally Posted by 64zebra View Post
    Hopyard......I understood the "claim" of US ceding territory to Mexico meaning that we just put up signs saying "hey you need to stay out due to the outlaws in this area that we aren't doing anything about"

    of course we haven't officially given any territory back, just in theory since we're not doing anything about it

    that is a fact and the area is large
    I understand your point, but the term used, the accusation flung, ceding to Mexico, has a more sinister meaning than what you have suggested.

    There is a park nearby where I live. It has signs that it is closed from 10:00 PM to 5 AM. That doesn't mean the city is ceding the park to
    druggies and vagrants. The opposite. It means ordinary folks keep out, police go in and clear it.

    I'm sure the same is going on in this US Forrest Service controlled area. People are asked to stay out, but officials-- Border Patrol, Guardsmen, State Troopers, and Sheriffs, do go in. Hardly ceding anything.

    I don't doubt that that particular area is too dangerous and that something must be done. But putting up some signs warning people of the danger isn't the same as "ceding territory" to Mexico, as was purported in the initial stories.

    If the news story simply stated the truth, that there is an area where it is now too dangerous for ordinary folks to go, I wouldn't have jumped into this discussion.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    Well, the antis wanted to know where these "Militias" are that they claim the 2A only applies to. This keeps up, and they will find out.

    I'm in CO. If the call goes out for volunteers, count me in.

    Arizona State law already allows for a unorganized State militia , separate from the State National Guard, which the Governor could Call To Order.

    Arizona Revised Statutes §26-124 Service by members of unorganized militia; volunteers during emergency; enrollment; selection; organizing selectees

    A. When the governor proclaims an emergency, and, upon advice of the adjutant general, determines that the national guard does not have sufficient troops to meet the emergency, the governor may authorize the adjutant general to accept for service from the unorganized militia a specified number of volunteers.

    B. If the governor deems an emergency of a nature that all or a large portion of the unorganized militia should be called into service of the state, he shall by proclamation order all members of the unorganized militia to enroll with the county recorder of the county in which they reside. The enrollment shall be in triplicate stating the full name, residence, age, occupation and previous service of each person enrolled. The rolls shall be verified by the enrolling officer who shall retain one copy and file one copy with the adjutant general and one with the clerk of the superior court of the county in which the person is enrolled. The persons called into service shall be determined by lot in accordance with a plan devised by the governor and implemented by him. The plan shall be patterned upon the latest selective service act of the United States and executive orders of the president issued to implement the law.

    C. Upon mobilization for state purposes members of the unorganized militia shall be organized under the command of the officer the governor designates into units comparable to units of the national guard.

    Arizona Revised Statutes §26-122 Components of militia

    A. The militia is divided into the national guard of Arizona, the state guard when organized, and the unorganized militia.

    B. The national guard consists of commissioned officers, warrant officers, enlisted personnel, organizations, staffs, corps and departments of the federally recognized and regularly commissioned, warranted and enlisted militia of the state, organized and maintained pursuant to law, and all members thereof honorably retired by age or disability.

    C. The numerical strength, composition, distribution, organization, arms, uniforms, equipment, training and discipline of the federally recognized national guard shall be prescribed by the governor in conformity with the allocation of units to the state by the department of the army and the department of the air force of the United States.

    D. The inactive national guard consists of commissioned, warranted and enlisted personnel relieved from assignment to the national guard by the adjutant general, or at their own request, under regulations prescribed by the department of national defense of the United States, and not reassigned to another component of the armed forces of the United States.

    E. The unorganized militia consists of members of the militia not members of the national guard or state guard when organized.
    Arizona Revised Statutes §26-121 Composition of militia; persons exempt

    The militia of the state of Arizona consists of all able bodied citizens of the state between the ages of eighteen and forty-five years and all residents of the state between such ages who have declared their intention to become citizens of the United States, except:

    1. Persons exempted by the laws of the state or the United States.

    2. Idiots, lunatics, totally blind persons and persons convicted of infamous crimes.

    3. Judges and clerks of courts of record.

    4. State and county civil officers holding office by election, and members of the legislature.

    5. Ministers of the gospel.

    In addition, a county Sheriff could form a Posse.

    Arizona Revised Statutes §26-123 Maintenance of private troops prohibited; violation; classification

    A. No person, partnership or corporation shall maintain troops under arms, but this section shall not be deemed to prohibit a business, plant or firm from maintaining armed guards for protection of their property from damage or loss, or formation of a state police or highway patrol, or the existence of county and municipal police forces and sheriff's posses.

    B. Any person violating this section is guilty of a class 5 felony.

    I suggest this action in an E-mail to Governor Brewer. Contact the Governor


    Those pin-head back East do not realize who they are F-ing with. It may not be the old west but it is still The West.

    There needs to be a rallying point like the Gladstone Flag or Gonzales Banner.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig35seven View Post

    What I'm saying is FOX reported a story that had many false statements that was manufactured to create headlines. They lied. Once again they fire up the viewers to gain ratings. They made the story much more inflammatory.

    #1. Biggest lie... Obama is "giving a major strip of the U.S back to Mexico"

    #2. Closing the park all along the U.S. border

    #3. "Closed the park 3 counties deep. Well into Arizona." "Closed North of Tucson 80 miles deep."

    None of these statements are true and did nothing more than cause chaos. Look what happened here. It worked just as they planned.
    I too have watched the stories....and in the Fox video Bream states "CRITICS say.................."
    thats a huge difference than what you are saying in your posts/summary of what Fox is saying, I didn't see/hear fox say the things your claiming
    Fox is reporting the same thing that other news sites are reporting, I've seen the same story stated online at other sources

    the BLM is under what government....federal....who directs the directors of BLM....the pres/administration....and they aren't doing anything about the signs or the problem
    this combined with the inaction of not just Obama but of Bush, Clinton, Bush, and yes...even Reagan we have come to this point,

    the signs are telling the people "hey don't go in this area", it is by this action and lack of our citizens getting to freely use our land that makes it "in effect" giving it to the enemy for their free use, maybe this should be stated and emphasized in the reporting of the situation

    yes this is an invasion...invasion of drug criminals, murderous drug cartels AND those that think this land is still Mexico's and they don't care about our laws/sovereignty

    if one was to do the same coming into Mexico they would be treated as an invader...this is what happens to the people coming in from central America right now, I've seen how they were treated by Mexico as invaders
    Just because because they are parachuting in from Soviet transports doesn't mean they aren't invading
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  14. #104
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    CASA GRANDE, AZ - Two men shot earlier this week could be the result of the ongoing battle between Mexican drug cartels now spilling over deep into Arizona, officials say.

    Pinal County investigators say an area known as the smuggling corridor now stretches from Mexico's border to metro Phoenix.

    The area , once an area for family hiking and off road vehicles has government signs warning residents of the drug and human smugglers.

    Night vision cameras have photographed military armed cartel members delivering drugs to vehicles along Highway 8.

    "We are three counties deep. How is it that you see pictures like these, not American with semi and fully automatic rifles. How is that okay?" asked Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeu.

    Babeu said he no longer has control over parts of his county.

    "We are outgunned, we are out manned and we don't have the resources here locally to fight this," he said at a Friday news conference.

    Five weeks ago Deputy Louie Puroll was ambushed and shot as he tracked six drug smugglers.
    Mexican Drug Cartels now control parts of Arizona

  15. #105
    VIP Member Array friesepferd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig35seven View Post
    I got it from the first post in this thread...I watched the video and listened to what she said. There is intentional misleading and I have not misinterpreted anything.

    Giving Part of U.S. to Mexico? - Video - FoxNews.com

    blah, i cant view that at work. i will have to watch it when i get home, but from what i read a certainly dont think the reporter said anything which meant to be interpreted as obama singing over land to the mexican government, only that some people blame the portion of AZ being run by mexican drug smugglers on Obama’s lack of action.
    I will have to watch it when I get home to give a more helpful response to what you have indicated.
    Wo die Notwehr aufhört, fängt der Mord an
    (Murder begins where self-defense ends)
    Georg Büchner

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