Mexican Gangs.. have permanent bases in Arizona: Merged - Page 3

Mexican Gangs.. have permanent bases in Arizona: Merged

This is a discussion on Mexican Gangs.. have permanent bases in Arizona: Merged within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Then there's this. FOXNews.com - Drug Cartel Activity Threatens Texas Water Supplies, Lawmaker Says...

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  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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  2. #32
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    re:ksholder

    Quote Originally Posted by ksholder View Post
    Hopyard - If the Border Patorl was effective in its mission, there would be no cross-border gang activity to clean up. Not sure how foriegn invaders that happen to be part of cartel gangs qualify as "local gang activity". Anyway, Article IV, Section 4 of the Constitution deals with who should repel invasions.
    Your first sentence is spot on. But that isn't the issue Ernie complained about.

    Second sentence. They are operating where they are; that makes it local. If a thief from Simi Valley CA robs a bank in Glendale, AZ, it is a local matter for the Glendale cops.

    Third Sentence. Totally agree and would agree that the job has been botched badly for very very many years. Not only that, I am convinced that the Mexican Government actively encourages the illegal migration.

    That fact however doesn't relieve the local authorities of their job to round up gang members who come to their attention.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Your first sentence is spot on. But that isn't the issue Ernie complained about.

    Second sentence. They are operating where they are; that makes it local. If a thief from Simi Valley CA robs a bank in Glendale, AZ, it is a local matter for the Glendale cops.

    Third Sentence. Totally agree and would agree that the job has been botched badly for very very many years. Not only that, I am convinced that the Mexican Government actively encourages the illegal migration.

    That fact however doesn't relieve the local authorities of their job to round up gang members who come to their attention.
    Yep, local authorities should militarize to take care of these threats. I figure they need three or four battalions and all the logistical support to go with it to cover all the open desert areas and we can round them up as you say and take care of business.



    let's see. Pinal county alone is 5400square miles. They have a grand total of about 200 deputies. They will get right on that.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Second sentence. They are operating where they are; that makes it local. If a thief from Simi Valley CA robs a bank in Glendale, AZ, it is a local matter for the Glendale cops.

    That fact however doesn't relieve the local authorities of their job to round up gang members who come to their attention.
    Hopyard - you are using a rather common definition for "local". The problem with the definition in this case is it crosses an international border, not an internal border. Just this fact alone puts the responsibility in the hands of the Feds. This is an invasion and the Constitution clearly states the Feds are to deal with invasions - Article IV, Section 4.
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

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  5. #35
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    re: 21bubba-- water

    I just read the article and frankly can't tell if it the real deal or more hype.

    Obviously if there is a group somewhere plotting to blow up a dam, they need to be dealt with. The question of course is whether or not the "intelligence" on this is anywhere near to being close on, or if what was reported was just talk.

    In any case there is a huge difference between the sort of mass destruction plot you have indicated here and the drug gang stuff Ernie mentioned in post #1.

    Its sort of funny to watch all the anti-big-government folks forget their ideology when it becomes convenient to beg for a solution from Uncle.

  6. #36
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    The problem is caused by the feds lack of control of the border. We have Iraq locked down harder than we do the US and we are using US troops to do it. They broke it they need to fix it. But they wont.

    What they will do is offer amnesty so the folks like Hopyard can feel content knowing we did the right thing.

    Gone are the days of Black jack Pershing and riding troops into mexico to kick some butt. Now, we have people who sympathize with invaders and want them all to be happy.

    our country is full of emasculated men.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Its sort of funny to watch all the anti-big-government folks forget their ideology when it becomes convenient to beg for a solution from Uncle.
    I admit I fall into this camp. Generally, I don't want the Feds poking their nose where it does not belong. However, the Constitution enumerates 17 things the Feds are to do and protecting the borders and providing for the common defense are among these duties the Feds should be doing and for which we are all paying. Running welfare programs, healthcare, student loan programs, etc. are not things we the people have tasked the Feds with doing. I think you will find most of the "anti-big-government folks" have a similar understanding and are, therefore, not inconsistent in our application of the Constitution.
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

    "When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson

    You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    The problem is caused by the feds lack of control of the border. We have Iraq locked down harder than we do the US and we are using US troops to do it. They broke it they need to fix it. But they wont.

    What they will do is offer amnesty so the folks like Hopyard can feel content knowing we did the right thing.

    Gone are the days of Black jack Pershing and riding troops into mexico to kick some butt. Now, we have people who sympathize with invaders and want them all to be happy.

    our country is full of emasculated men.
    You are totally out of line.

    Hopyard and I have butted heads over the whole Mexico/ immagration/ border thing and not once do I remember him calling for amnesty.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrandBob View Post
    So where are they? Nothing a few A-10s doing a drive by couldnt handle, I'm sure.
    Not like there aren't a couple in Tucson
    Guns are meant to be shot Harley, not thrown!

  10. #40
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    Thank you, 21bubba

    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    You are totally out of line.

    Hopyard and I have butted heads over the whole Mexico/ immagration/ border thing and not once do I remember him calling for amnesty.
    You are correct. I don't favor amnesty. It didn't work the last time we tried it.

    I do think we are going to have to face some realities, and we will need to live up to our shared moral convictions and refrain from deporting folks when it would be inhumane to do so.

    I can't see breaking up families or deporting young adults who have never known Mexico (or Tiawan for that matter), because there parents violated our law.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksholder View Post
    I admit I fall into this camp. Generally, I don't want the Feds poking their nose where it does not belong. However, the Constitution enumerates 17 things the Feds are to do and protecting the borders and providing for the common defense are among these duties the Feds should be doing and for which we are all paying. Running welfare programs, healthcare, student loan programs, etc. are not things we the people have tasked the Feds with doing. I think you will find most of the "anti-big-government folks" have a similar understanding and are, therefore, not inconsistent in our application of the Constitution.
    Well said...

    Consistent application of the Constitution is critical...

    The federal government needs to be involved in this sine these gangs are basically armed private armies crossing an international border...

    LEAs need to be involved...but the feds needs to lead this effort...and that would be consistent with the federal responsibilities enumerated in the Constitution...
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  12. #42
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    You are correct. I don't favor amnesty. It didn't work the last time we tried it.

    I do think we are going to have to face some realities, and we will need to live up to our shared moral convictions and refrain from deporting folks when it would be inhumane to do so.

    I can't see breaking up families or deporting young adults who have never known Mexico (or Tiawan for that matter), because there parents violated our law.
    Not to derail this thread any further but I disagree with your entire 3rd. paragraph.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I can't see breaking up families or deporting young adults who have never known Mexico (or Tiawan for that matter), because there parents violated our law.
    I agree - we should not break up families. I also don't agree that anchor babies should be granted citizenship. This is a debatable issue under the Constitution. If the parent is here illegally, I don't read the Constitution as conferring citizenship on the new born infant.
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

    "When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson

    You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.

  14. #44
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    re: ksholder--round and round we go where she stops

    Quote Originally Posted by ksholder View Post
    I agree - we should not break up families. I also don't agree that anchor babies should be granted citizenship. This is a debatable issue under the Constitution. If the parent is here illegally, I don't read the Constitution as conferring citizenship on the new born infant.
    Round and round we go, where she stops nobody knows.

    I know you like to use language in a very precise manner, so I don't see how you can read the constitution as you do; but, let's not derail this further.

    All I was trying to convey is that 21Bubba correctly stated that I don't support amnesty; but, neither do I support acts which would be inhumane.

    (In case you are not aware of it, we "parole" people into this country on humanitarian grounds routinely, all the time, and for all manner of humanitarian reason. )

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Round and round we go, where she stops nobody knows.

    I know you like to use language in a very precise manner, so I don't see how you can read the constitution as you do; but, let's not derail this further.

    All I was trying to convey is that 21Bubba correctly stated that I don't support amnesty; but, neither do I support acts which would be inhumane.

    (In case you are not aware of it, we "parole" people into this country on humanitarian grounds routinely, all the time, and for all manner of humanitarian reason. )
    My last post on this topic - I agree with you about derailing. I also know that we allow people in the country for humanitarian reasons - but then they are here legally.
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

    "When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson

    You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.

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