Mexican Gangs.. have permanent bases in Arizona: Merged

This is a discussion on Mexican Gangs.. have permanent bases in Arizona: Merged within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Hopyard I just read the article and frankly can't tell if it the real deal or more hype. Obviously if there is ...

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Thread: Mexican Gangs.. have permanent bases in Arizona: Merged

  1. #46
    Senior Member Array Shadowsbane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I just read the article and frankly can't tell if it the real deal or more hype.

    Obviously if there is a group somewhere plotting to blow up a dam, they need to be dealt with. The question of course is whether or not the "intelligence" on this is anywhere near to being close on, or if what was reported was just talk.

    In any case there is a huge difference between the sort of mass destruction plot you have indicated here and the drug gang stuff Ernie mentioned in post #1.

    Its sort of funny to watch all the anti-big-government folks forget their ideology when it becomes convenient to beg for a solution from Uncle.
    Historically organized crime has been handled on a Federal level. Since by and large the crime organizations operate across several state lines. One would be hard pressed to say that these larger cartels are not on the same level as Al Capone, and the Mafia.
    Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.

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  3. #47
    VIP Member Array automatic slim's Avatar
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    More change you can believe in...
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  4. #48
    VIP Member Array automatic slim's Avatar
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    So...............

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Round and round we go, where she stops nobody knows.

    I know you like to use language in a very precise manner, so I don't see how you can read the constitution as you do; but, let's not derail this further.

    All I was trying to convey is that 21Bubba correctly stated that I don't support amnesty; but, neither do I support acts which would be inhumane.

    (In case you are not aware of it, we "parole" people into this country on humanitarian grounds routinely, all the time, and for all manner of humanitarian reason. )
    It's "inhumane" to expect foreigners to comply with our immigration laws? That's strange, every other country on the planet expects the same from us.
    If border jumpers had any intestinal fortitude, they would remain in their country and improve their life there instead of coming here to plunder and weaken our infrastructure...and then expect the legal citizens to foot the bill.
    As for parole, that's the reason so many repeat offenders are roaming the streets, but I guess it would be "inhumane" to expect criminals to serve their full sentence.
    Last edited by automatic slim; June 22nd, 2010 at 09:20 PM. Reason: spelling.
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  5. #49
    Member Array 45tek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErnieNWillis View Post
    Mexican Cartel gangs have invaded US soil and our government does nothing? WTH is wrong with administration?


    FOXNews.com - Mexican Gangs Maintain Permanent Lookout Bases in Hills of Arizona
    Who the heck is "administration"? and they(MC) have been here a long time. They were in Colorado when I moved there in 2003 and in Arizona in 2007. Im sure long before then also. Im not sure why the gubment doesnt aggressively attack these groups through legislation and military means.


  6. #50
    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghettokracker71 View Post
    Good idea! Talk about cutting goverment expense down,...I've got MORE than plenty of 7.62, Now where do they sell the "hunting licenses" ?
    Looks like we may be next with our state passing similar anti-immigration laws like AZ. Just like you have a stock of your 7.62, I also have plenty of ammo for .40, .45, 12-ga. and 5.56. Also include my M-9 bayonet. Time to get ready. They got their cartels. Looks like we got to deal with MS-13.

  7. #51
    Senior Member Array Shadowsbane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by automatic slim View Post
    It's "inhumane" to expect foreigners to comply with our immigration laws? That's strange, every other country on the planet expects the same from us.
    If border jumpers had any intestinal fortitude, they would remain in their country and improve their life there instead of coming here to plunder and weaken our infrastructure...and then expect the legal citizens to foot the bill.
    As for parole, that's the reason so many repeat offenders are roaming the streets, but I guess it would be "inhumane" to expect criminals to serve their full sentence.
    Look I hate illegal immigration as much as the next guy, and probably more so. However, I don't think you really have a clue as to what conditions are like in most of those countries, as far as rights go.

    The short answer is not much rights, and not much chance of resistance.

    Heck, El Salvador had a 12 or 13 year civil war that only really ended up with a stalemate.

    The issue is far more complicated than effectively stating that they are just cowards, and that is their problem.
    Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.

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  8. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    You are correct. I don't favor amnesty. It didn't work the last time we tried it.

    I do think we are going to have to face some realities, and we will need to live up to our shared moral convictions and refrain from deporting folks when it would be inhumane to do so.

    I can't see breaking up families or deporting young adults who have never known Mexico (or Tiawan for that matter), because their parents violated our law.
    Why? Don't we break up families when mom or dad (or both) commit crimes here in the U.S.? Bank robbers, drug dealers and the lot all go to jail when they break the law, why should the American public have to worry about families that the law breakers didn't seem to worry about.
    Why don't we just take ALL money and belongings of every U.S. citizen and make everyone live in camps so that we could feed the world, yeah, that's the ticket. Sheeesh! It's about time people take care of their own, feed their own, and pay the price when they break the law.
    We are all on a collision course with financial collapse and pockets of anarachy in our country...wake up people!
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    re: retsupt-- humaneness, it is a moral issue

    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    We are all on a collision course with financial collapse and pockets of anarachy in our country...wake up people!
    This I sort of agree with but we likely disagree about the causation.

    As for the rest of your comment, with all the talk here at DC about morality, and with humaneness being a moral issue, I won't yield on what I wrote: no amnesty, but a humane approach must be taken. I don't want cruelty done in my name, thank you.

  10. #54
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    for Automatic Slim "parole"

    Quote Originally Posted by automatic slim View Post
    As for parole, that's the reason so many repeat offenders are roaming the streets, but I guess it would be "inhumane" to expect criminals to serve their full sentence.
    The word "parole" has a different meaning from what you are thinking when it is used in the context of immigration.

    It is just a term to indicate that someone is being allowed to stay on humanitarian grounds. It has nothing to do with prior criminality. E.g., Someone might show up at an airport without a visa or proper papers, but have a spouse or child here in our military. The person may be permitted to stay on humanitarian grounds. There are other similar situations and the process is called "humanitarian parole." This has nothing to do with drug dealing and thievery. Its just a noun for a legal act of mercy.

  11. #55
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    re: Shadowsbane 'organized crime'

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowsbane View Post
    Historically organized crime has been handled on a Federal level. Since by and large the crime organizations operate across several state lines. One would be hard pressed to say that these larger cartels are not on the same level as Al Capone, and the Mafia.
    Good point.

  12. #56
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    The 'gangs' are by and large, more heavily armed than local police.

    They've crossed an international border. Their crimes also cross our intranational borders.

    They've come armed, with the intent to kill citizens of the U.S. and distribute their illegal booty, be it drugs or people, throughout the country.

    While it's being reported in AZ, because AZ is in the news, lately, I'll bet it's happening in every border state. These crimes are not just limited to AZ.

    I would love for AZ to take the initiative and secure it's own border, and lock up the illegal armed gangs, but we lack the resources. We need help from our fellow states.

    While I have a great level of distrust for the Fed, I believe that a few posters have made good points why they are obligated to intervene or at least help foot the bill. But, they seem rather intent on using up AZ for political gain.

    Obama has more respect, shows more courtesy to Calderon, than he does Jan Brewer. That's just wrong. He has an obligation to AZ, not to Mexico.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

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  13. #57
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    The 'gangs' are by and large, more heavily armed than local police.

    They've crossed an international border. Their crimes also cross our intranational borders.

    They've come armed, with the intent to kill citizens of the U.S. and distribute their illegal booty, be it drugs or people, throughout the country.

    While it's being reported in AZ, because AZ is in the news, lately, I'll bet it's happening in every border state. These crimes are not just limited to AZ.

    I would love for AZ to take the initiative and secure it's own border, and lock up the illegal armed gangs, but we lack the resources. We need help from our fellow states.

    While I have a great level of distrust for the Fed, I believe that a few posters have made good points why they are obligated to intervene or at least help foot the bill. But, they seem rather intent on using up AZ for political gain.

    Obama has more respect, shows more courtesy to Calderon, than he does Jan Brewer. That's just wrong. He has an obligation to AZ, not to Mexico.
    Well spoken!!

  14. #58
    Distinguished Member Array ErnieNWillis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Sounds to me like the folks who usually don't want the Fed involved in anything are now complaining because they themselves don't want to do their job.

    You got gangs? You know who the gangsters are? You got evidence? Pick em up and bury them in a cell somewhere. That's what happens everywhere else. Don't whine the Uncle isn't doing anything. Gangsters don't get a pass because they happen to be illegal; and people don't need to be illegal to be gangsters.

    The OP's premise was that there are known entrenched gangsters and Uncle should do something. How about the local and state police and prosecutors pick the known guys up instead of whining. Andd stop begging for help from the very government everyone (here it seems) wants to beat up on.

    I can just hear the complaints now if there was a vigorous DEA/BATF crackdown.
    'Specially if some good old local fellas got swept.

    Your right Hop. I would rather the Feds not be involved at all. I would however like to see the Commander and Thief acknowledge that there is a problem. I know it wont happen because he doesnt want to offend his potential voter base.

  15. #59
    Distinguished Member Array GunGeezer's Avatar
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    Call me inhumane but we can no longer expect nor require our citizenry to support those who immigrate to this country to find better pickings, whether legal or illegal. Conditions are so bad in their countries of origin that they have nothing to contribute to our society, have little or no understanding of our history or the principles of democracy and seek to form a microcosim of their former country on our dime. Between the Muslims and Mexicans, America will soon be "changed" into a third world country. How humane is that?

  16. #60
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunGeezer View Post
    Call me inhumane but we can no longer expect nor require our citizenry to support those who immigrate to this country to find better pickings, whether legal or illegal. Conditions are so bad in their countries of origin that they have nothing to contribute to our society, have little or no understanding of our history or the principles of democracy and seek to form a microcosim of their former country on our dime. Between the Muslims and Mexicans, America will soon be "changed" into a third world country. How humane is that?
    Unfortunately I think you're a wee bit late on that statement friend.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

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