Mexican Gangs.. have permanent bases in Arizona: Merged

This is a discussion on Mexican Gangs.. have permanent bases in Arizona: Merged within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by BikerRN Therein lies the crux of the problem. What you would consider inhumane I consider a good start. Hanging and disembowelment were ...

Page 6 of 11 FirstFirst ... 2345678910 ... LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 162

Thread: Mexican Gangs.. have permanent bases in Arizona: Merged

  1. #76
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,625

    re: BikerRN

    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    Therein lies the crux of the problem.

    What you would consider inhumane I consider a good start.

    Hanging and disembowelment were the norm at one time. Sadly it is not the norm in this day and age. I bring this to light to point out one thing, one man's inhumanity is another man's compassion. Most would consider a bullet to the head as humane if compared to hangng and disembowlment.

    Biker
    That you think it is sad that hanging and disembowelment are no longer practiced, pretty much makes it unrealistic for us to continue a discussion with any hope of it coming to agreement.

    There are several different issues which keep getting confused and joined in these discussions, and maybe if we learned to separate the issues we could get rational---instead of hoping for a return to barbarity.

    1) Being here undocumented presently is (depending on who answers the question) either not a crime at all or it is a Federal misdemeanor.

    There was a panel discussion about these issues on C-Span the other
    day and one lawyer asserted being here undocumented was strictly
    a civil not criminal issue. Homeland Security Head Napolitano
    corrected him, and stated it was a Federal misdemeanor.

    Either way, hardly something you get disemboweled for. And CONGRESS is perfectly free at any time it wishes to raise the level of the crime to that of a felony. They have chosen to not do that.

    2) A distinction needs to be drawn between the drug gang involved undocumented aliens who are committing felonies, and the folks who are just trying to survive. The old saying, different strokes for different folks applies to how harshly these two different groups of people should be treated.

    3) None of us know who to believe regarding the severity of all of these
    problems. Maybe this is the biggest real issue. Fox exaggerates. DEA and Homeland Security spin, if not exaggerate. Politicians spin and exaggerate and lie. The sad result is that the public forms opinions which may have no basis in reality. Congress forms opinions and law which may have no basis in reality.

    4) None of this garbage would be happening if two conditions didn't exist--- and both are our own dang fault. 1) Employers find it beneficial to hire undocumented individuals 2) Drug users need the supply from across the border.

    Deal with these two issues and most of the illegal migration problem will disappear.

    5) Mexico has to be put on notice that it must stop encouraging illegal migration. Their attitude seems to be that the way to prosperity is to encourage their poorest and their worst to move across the border. I've no idea how we might pressure them to think differently, or reward them for acting differently, but then neither did Colin Powell when he was George's Secretary of State. In other words, it is a tough issue.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #77
    VIP Member
    Array ksholder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    3,920
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    5) Mexico has to be put on notice that it must stop encouraging illegal migration. Their attitude seems to be that the way to prosperity is to encourage their poorest and their worst to move across the border. I've no idea how we might pressure them to think differently, or reward them for acting differently, but then neither did Colin Powell when he was George's Secretary of State. In other words, it is a tough issue.
    Hopyard - I agree that we need to put Mexico on notice. This is not, however, what Congress and the President did a few weeks ago with Calderon addressed Congress, dressed them down and got a standing ovation from our elected representatives.
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

    "When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson

    You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.

  4. #78
    Member Array xpertz1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Northeast Pa
    Posts
    68
    [IMG][/IMG]

    Double click for larger pic...
    Peace is that brief, glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading.

  5. #79
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,625

    re:ksholder True enough with one qualifier

    Quote Originally Posted by ksholder View Post
    Hopyard - I agree that we need to put Mexico on notice. This is not, however, what Congress and the President did a few weeks ago with Calderon addressed Congress, dressed them down and got a standing ovation from our elected representatives.
    True enough, but with the qualifying reminder that GWB did likewise with Mr. Vincente Fox.

    Just noting this fact, because the migration problem shouldn't be thought of as partisan. There are plenty of labor groups in this country upset by the competition for jobs and the downward pressure on wages. There are plenty of "conservative" business groups which like the present situation so well they would grant another blanket amnesty and increase all manner of immigrant quotas and create all manner of new visa categories; All, based on false claims that we don't have enough workers here. And they have the gall to say that with a straight face while official unemployment approximates 10% and real unemployment is believed to approximate 17%.

  6. #80
    Member Array Night Flight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    149
    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    People that don't live close to the border don't realise it's more like North Mexico,until Illegals try to move farther North they are ignored unless they break the law,Falfurrias Border Patrol checkpoint on 281 highway is about 60 miles north of the border
    Right on, the people up north have no idea what is going on in TX, N.M., and AZ. They think FOX is slanting the news, they better wake up and realize that FOX is the only ones, until lately, that told of the killings down here. They don't profile down here, they don't even traffic stop for obvious safety violations on their vehicles.

  7. #81
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    State of Discombobulation
    Posts
    5,253
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    That you think it is sad that hanging and disembowelment are no longer practiced, pretty much makes it unrealistic for us to continue a discussion with any hope of it coming to agreement.

    I never expected, nor do I look for, agreement.

    There are several different issues which keep getting confused and joined in these discussions, and maybe if we learned to separate the issues we could get rational---instead of hoping for a return to barbarity.

    I am only looking at one issue. Illegal Aliens are here illegally and a drain on our economy and ruining my way of life.

    1) Being here undocumented presently is (depending on who answers the question) either not a crime at all or it is a Federal misdemeanor.

    There was a panel discussion about these issues on C-Span the other
    day and one lawyer asserted being here undocumented was strictly
    a civil not criminal issue. Homeland Security Head Napolitano
    corrected him, and stated it was a Federal misdemeanor.

    Nappy Head was correct this time.

    Either way, hardly something you get disemboweled for. And CONGRESS is perfectly free at any time it wishes to raise the level of the crime to that of a felony. They have chosen to not do that.

    There are already too many illegals in our correctional system. It's time to make the punishment for the crime of being here illegally harsh enough that people would reconsider doing so.

    2) A distinction needs to be drawn between the drug gang involved undocumented aliens who are committing felonies, and the folks who are just trying to survive. The old saying, different strokes for different folks applies to how harshly these two different groups of people should be treated.

    Treat them all equally, as we are all equal under the law, or should be. I don't care about the survival of a mexican, honduran, or any other nationality when it drags my country down in the dirt.

    3) None of us know who to believe regarding the severity of all of these
    problems. Maybe this is the biggest real issue. Fox exaggerates. DEA and Homeland Security spin, if not exaggerate. Politicians spin and exaggerate and lie. The sad result is that the public forms opinions which may have no basis in reality. Congress forms opinions and law which may have no basis in reality.

    I've formed my opinions based on what I see on a daily basis with my own eyes. Will some otherwise decent people be caught up in the fray? Absolutely, but then we always throw the baby out with the bathwater, so it seems. So this would be no different, IMO.

    4) None of this garbage would be happening if two conditions didn't exist--- and both are our own dang fault. 1) Employers find it beneficial to hire undocumented individuals 2) Drug users need the supply from across the border.

    I've been advocating the death penalty for narcotic convictions too. There is no such thing as a "harmless drug".

    Deal with these two issues and most of the illegal migration problem will disappear.

    No, I sadly think you are looking for Utopia, and that doesn't exist.

    5) Mexico has to be put on notice that it must stop encouraging illegal migration. Their attitude seems to be that the way to prosperity is to encourage their poorest and their worst to move across the border. I've no idea how we might pressure them to think differently, or reward them for acting differently, but then neither did Colin Powell when he was George's Secretary of State. In other words, it is a tough issue.

    Mexico needs it's northern door slammed shut, by lethal force if necessary.
    I find it sad that our elected represenatives are trying to look at this from a "one world" view. Whatever happened to America First?

    Biker

  8. #82
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    arizona
    Posts
    3,749
    There's two separate crimes in discussion, here.

    There the act of immigrating illegally, a Federal misdemeanor.

    Then there's the more sinister crimes that seem to accompany it, drugs, human trafficking, etc.

    The latter crimes are the ones that beg for capital punishment, like Biker suggested.

    The problem isn't just the illegal trespassing, it's all the crime that comes with it. Now, the trespassers have become armed squatters.

    At what point do they become an invading force? Never mind who's paying them; they've set up an armed camp with the obvious intention to carry on their illegal activities.

    So, at what point? 10 men? 100 men?

    What crimes have to be committed, before it's considered an outrage against the whole country? 1 murder? 1 kidnapping? 1 sex slave? Or multipliers of hundreds?

    It's time to recognize that illegal trespassing is the beginning of all the rest. If we do not resist violently, then the violent gangs will commit violence against us.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  9. #83
    VIP Member
    Array OPFOR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Nomad
    Posts
    4,713
    irregardless
    Ah, the pain, the pain.... Make it stop!
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  10. #84
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    arizona
    Posts
    3,749
    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post

    irregardless

    Ah, the pain, the pain.... Make it stop!


    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  11. #85
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    2,375
    The USA should bulldoze a 200 yard strip the length of the border and set up check points and use air craft to patrol the strip. Any one crossing this strip would be shot on sight. This would include aircraft incoming from Mexico who did not identify them selves. The man power for this could be supplied by all the returning GI's returning from the middle east. It would help the GI's coming home looking for jobs. What do you think?

  12. #86
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    ky.
    Posts
    1,890
    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    Ah, the pain, the pain.... Make it stop!
    Yeah I'm sorry. This is coming from the guy(me) who's pet peeve is "hot water heater".

  13. #87
    VIP Member
    Array ksholder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    3,920
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom G View Post
    The USA should bulldoze a 200 yard strip the length of the border and set up check points and use air craft to patrol the strip. Any one crossing this strip would be shot on sight. This would include aircraft incoming from Mexico who did not identify them selves. The man power for this could be supplied by all the returning GI's returning from the middle east. It would help the GI's coming home looking for jobs. What do you think?
    I think you put a fence on both sides of your strip and mine the sucker.
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

    "When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson

    You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.

  14. #88
    VIP Member
    Array ksholder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    3,920
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    True enough, but with the qualifying reminder that GWB did likewise with Mr. Vincente Fox.

    Just noting this fact, because the migration problem shouldn't be thought of as partisan. There are plenty of labor groups in this country upset by the competition for jobs and the downward pressure on wages. There are plenty of "conservative" business groups which like the present situation so well they would grant another blanket amnesty and increase all manner of immigrant quotas and create all manner of new visa categories; All, based on false claims that we don't have enough workers here. And they have the gall to say that with a straight face while official unemployment approximates 10% and real unemployment is believed to approximate 17%.
    Hopyard - please refresh my memory. I remember Fox and Bush getting on famously, but I don't remember Fox criticizing our government, state or local and telling us how we should govern our country. Am I forgetting something? Could be, I frequently can't remember why I went to the kitchen from my office.
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

    "When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson

    You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.

  15. #89
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,625

    re:ksholder concerning Vincente Fox

    Quote Originally Posted by ksholder View Post
    Hopyard - please refresh my memory. I remember Fox and Bush getting on famously, but I don't remember Fox criticizing our government, state or local and telling us how we should govern our country. Am I forgetting something? Could be, I frequently can't remember why I went to the kitchen from my office.
    I didn't say they didn't get along. They got on fine, exactly as you say. Fox was more careful about what he said. Why would he criticize us when things were going exactly as he wished? People export from there to here.

  16. #90
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    ky.
    Posts
    1,890
    Why can't some of us stay on the topic? You remember armed gangs on U.S. soil.

    I believe as a show of our intents,commitment and our focus, we as a country should demonstrate to these gangs our ability to take them off of this planet. They have shown their intent and their resolve so why shouldn't we.

    If we did this correctly no anchor babies would be harmed. That way we wouldn't upset SOME on here.

Page 6 of 11 FirstFirst ... 2345678910 ... LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. The 21-year-old Mexican girl who took a job as police chief? (MERGED)
    By paaiyan in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: March 9th, 2011, 10:22 AM
  2. [Merged]Texas LEO's advise residents near the Mexican Border to ARM themselves....
    By ExSoldier in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 72
    Last Post: April 27th, 2010, 01:57 PM
  3. The Law? ATF, Mexican Gangs, and Eastern Washington
    By nutz4utwo in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: November 24th, 2009, 02:49 PM
  4. Just saw this on msn.com (Veteran cuts down Mexican Flag) - Merged
    By edr9x23super in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: October 8th, 2007, 11:43 PM

Search tags for this page

gang round up in glendale az

,

glendale arizona has a gang round up

,

mexican gangs merging

,

pittsburg l.m.t gang

,

willis, tx area gangs

Click on a term to search for related topics.