Should McCrystal be fired? - Page 2

Should McCrystal be fired?

This is a discussion on Should McCrystal be fired? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by DaveJay Yes, he should be fired...he violated the Uniformed Code of Military Justice, and common sense... And let me add here, I ...

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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveJay View Post
    Yes, he should be fired...he violated the Uniformed Code of Military Justice, and common sense...

    And let me add here, I detest the current Administration...but I love the military and cannot stand seeing senior leaders violate regulations...

    Article 88 of the UCMJ prevents a commissioned officer from speaking the way he did...

    Excerpt from Article 88 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice:

    “Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”

    Elements.

    (1) That the accused was a commissioned officer of the United States armed forces;

    (2) That the accused used certain words against an official or legislature named in the article;

    (3) That by an act of the accused these words came to the knowledge of a person other than the accused; and

    (4) That the words used were contemptuous, either in themselves or by virtue of the circumstances under which they were used. Note: If the words were against a Governor or legislature, add the following element

    (5) That the accused was then present in the State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession of the Governor or legislature concerned.


    Secondly, as a former officer, I can tell you he never should have spoken that way in front of his junior officers...AND NOT IN FRONT OF A REPORTER...


    IMHO, General McChrystal is one of the best...but what kind of example would this set for everyone else if he's allowed the get away with violating the UCMJ when an NCO, for example, can be kicked out for drinking alcohol in Afghanistan...
    Well stated.

    The only caveat I would add (and it is not the case at this time) would be if the administration had committed treason or other acts subverting the Constitution which the officer has sworn to uphold. Again, this administration - as much as I dislike it - has not gone there.
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  2. #17
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    retirement at a 4 star generals pay,plus any proceeds from the book he will write after they can no longer muzzle him
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Be cautious in not crossing the line into political commentary. The thread will be closed if it goes that way.

    Now for my own comment; I understand that the General violated rules. He should be punished for that. He should have never given that interview in the first place. He is a fighting man, not a silver tongued politician. True fighting men speak the truth and don't let politics influence their opinions.
    I believe that that is what he was doing...IMHO.

    The problem is that in any organization, loyality is important. In my business, I expected loyality...especially with unpopular issues. Support the team or leave the team.

    The General chose to be part of a team, and his loyality is of extreme importance. If he did not agree with the purpose, mission, or plan, then it should have been his decision to retire from that team.

    From what I've heard on the news (for what it is worth) I understand and agree with the anti-administration statements. The problem is that loyality trumps all. Either you go with the flow (except in illegal or immoral situations), or you go...
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  4. #19
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    To me, a General that is commanding troops in war should not be spouting off in Rolling Stone magazine.

    Is it a fireable offense? I dunno but it shows poor judgement and that seems mutualy exclusive for the job that he is doing for our military.

    (hope I am following the rules with this post)

  5. #20
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    It is my understanding that the ONLY comment attributed to the General was disparaging to the Special Ambassador to Afghanistan. All the other comments were attributed to unidentified subordinates. So I don't see where he violated the stated section of the UCMJ. I'm sure that his not disciplining his subordinates is a violation as well, but should not be in the same category. If it is, then he should resign (assuming all the things in the article are true).

    I do believe that the Administration should have expected a former Special Forces officer to be somewhat less respectful to non-combat "suits". From a strategic standpoint, this is a very poor time to be pulling the commander of the theatre of operations.

  6. #21
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    Most of what was attributed to the General was said in confidence in a circle of friends.

    One of them ratted him out.

    Because of that, we lose a General. America loses a Patriot and one of the few that can make things happen that speaks the truth.
    We are greatly diminished.

    The only one winning here is Obama...who will simply appoint a "yes" man in his place. That is not the way to win a war...
    and that makes me want to puke.
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  7. #22
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    As stated, almost nothing was attributed to Gen McCrystal. Even then, most of the comments don't reach the level of "contemptuous" to me. Should he have given the interview in the first place? I don't think so. Is he disloyal? I don't think so. There is a line between loyalty and being a lapdog - the General has a huge responsibility, and a big part of that responsibility lies in speaking the truth as he understands it. Whether or not that truth should be given to Rolling Stone is another matter entirely...
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  8. #23
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    If what he said was to his friends, and not directly to the magazine, then I retract.

    No more spouting off for me until I read the whole article.

  9. #24
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    He's been punished enough by the WH in his efforts to prosecute the war, Obama should accept his resignation.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    While I have no use for the White House resident, or any of his staff. General McChrystal violated the oath he took at commissioning. For that reason his firing would be deserved. This is not the first time he has been in trouble for opening his mouth at the wrong time, he should have learned when he didn't get canned the first time. Nothing in his job requires him to like or approve of the decisions made by those above him, his job is to advise and then follow those orders. If he can't do it, or support those in command above him, it is time to retire.

    I retired in 94. I could have gone another 2 years, but with Clinton in office, I could not in good faith support my leader.
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    Nothing about the President there....

    However, I agree he did run his mouth when he should have kept it to himself....retire, and become a pundit.
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  11. #26
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guns and more View Post
    He should be fired. You don't criticize the commander in chief even if he doesn't have a clue. Then McChrystal should walk out with his head held high and write a book.
    What I don't understand is that McChrystal says he VOTED for Obama. That makes me question his judgement.
    I agree.
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  13. #28
    Senior Member Array DaveJay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    As stated, almost nothing was attributed to Gen McCrystal. Even then, most of the comments don't reach the level of "contemptuous" to me. Should he have given the interview in the first place? I don't think so. Is he disloyal? I don't think so. There is a line between loyalty and being a lapdog - the General has a huge responsibility, and a big part of that responsibility lies in speaking the truth as he understands it. Whether or not that truth should be given to Rolling Stone is another matter entirely...
    True statement...

    However, the only things we have seen is the excerpt of the article given to the Washington Post...the complete article comes out Friday in The Rolling Stone...

    I'm assuming here...but I would wager The Rolling Stone kept the "best" , or most damning (depending on your POV), comments for their own publication...this was the "taste" or tease to get sales up on Friday...
    Last edited by DaveJay; June 23rd, 2010 at 09:30 AM. Reason: I can't spell
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  14. #29
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    Why did the General submit an apology? That is my question. If me and my buddies were sitting around talking and my boss overheard us slandering him and his and I was called out, I would say "yep I said it". He was caught "red tongued" and should have just rode it out. The apology makes it seem as if he did something wrong. "Roger Sir, I said I dont like the way things are around here and my buddies said your staff were a bunch of morons, would you like me to tell you how I think we can fix it?". That should have been his line and then it would be up to CiC to do what he felt he must. I dunno, too much politics at that level. Im glad Im just a dumb, enlisted Grunt......
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  15. #30
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    Yes he should be fired.

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