"Minimum force" Proposal in New York to require Police to shoot for arm or legs

This is a discussion on "Minimum force" Proposal in New York to require Police to shoot for arm or legs within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; A bill that was proposed in New York in May would have required police to use their weapons "with the intent to stop, rather than ...

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Thread: "Minimum force" Proposal in New York to require Police to shoot for arm or legs

  1. #1
    Member Array radman's Avatar
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    "Minimum force" Proposal in New York to require Police to shoot for arm or legs

    A bill that was proposed in New York in May would have required police to use their weapons "with the intent to stop, rather than kill" a suspect. They would be mandated to "shoot a suspect in the arm or the leg."

    Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/c...#ixzz0tjPsozXr

    I swear, our country is being run by idiots. Whats next, take their guns away and give them whistles? Train our Police to yell "Stop, or I'll yell Stop again".
    Freedom.... The Price Keeps Going Up, and the Quality Keeps Going Down.

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    That will get people killed... police officers.

    If you don't need the gun to 'eliminate ' a threat on your or someone else's life, then you didn't need to use the gun in the first place. At that point , it is not to see if you can shoot someone in the arm..... this is not Hollywood... this is reality.
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    Member Array charlie1826's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    That will get people killed... police officers.

    If you don't need the gun to 'eliminate ' a threat on your or someone else's life, then you didn't need to use the gun in the first place. At that point , it is not to see if you can shoot someone in the arm..... this is not Hollywood... this is reality.
    Exactly, trying to hit someone's arm while they are running, jumping, etc... is not an easy shot; COM is not always easy either but it is definitely better than going for the arm. All this law would have done is get people hurt, especially cops and the unlucky people to be around when they are trying to hit his arm. Also when the other guy is shooting to kill me, I won't be shooting to break his arm.
    Everytime I see something like this I say to myself, "OK they can't possibly get any dumber than this." Unfortunately they have a very good track record of proving me wrong.

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    Member Array charlie1826's Avatar
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    I just noticed this in the article, so I have to ask; I did not do any research whatsoever I just thought I would ask, don't hate me .

    THE CURRENT LAW

    Section of state Penal Law S 35.15(2)(a)(ii)

    “A person may not use deadly physical force upon another person . . . unless: he or she is . . . a police officer or peace officer or a person assisting a police officer or a peace officer at the latter’s direction.”



    Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/c...#ixzz0tjjYFc3J

    Does this mean that there is no situation where deadly force can be used by a civilian? That would mean that in NY someone could be trying to kill me and I just have to let them? Sadly it wouldn't surprise me since its NY but its amazing what they come up with.

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    Senior Member Array DIABLO9489's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlie1826 View Post
    I just noticed this in the article, so I have to ask; I did not do any research whatsoever I just thought I would ask, don't hate me .

    THE CURRENT LAW

    Section of state Penal Law S 35.15(2)(a)(ii)

    “A person may not use deadly physical force upon another person . . . unless: he or she is . . . a police officer or peace officer or a person assisting a police officer or a peace officer at the latter’s direction.”



    Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/c...#ixzz0tjjYFc3J

    Does this mean that there is no situation where deadly force can be used by a civilian? That would mean that in NY someone could be trying to kill me and I just have to let them? Sadly it wouldn't surprise me since its NY but its amazing what they come up with.
    From Article 35 of the New York State Penal law
    S 35.15 Justification; use of physical force in defense of a person.
    1. A person may, subject to the provisions of subdivision two, use
    physical force upon another person when and to the extent he reasonably
    believes such to be necessary to defend himself or a third person from
    what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful
    physical force by such other person, unless:
    (a) The latter`s conduct was provoked by the actor himself with intent
    to cause physical injury to another person; or
    (b) The actor was the initial aggressor; except that in such case his
    use of physical force is nevertheless justifiable if he has withdrawn
    from the encounter and effectively communicated such withdrawal to such
    other person but the latter persists in continuing the incident by the
    use or threatened imminent use of unlawful physical force; or
    (c) The physical force involved is he product of a combat by
    agreement not specifically authorized by law.
    2. A person may not use deadly physical force upon another person
    under circumstances specified in subdivision one unless:
    (a) He reasonably believes that such other person is using or about to
    use deadly physical force. Even in such case, however, the actor may not
    use deadly physical force if he knows that he can with complete safety
    as to himself and others avoid the necessity of so doing by retreating;
    except that he is under no duty to retreat if he is:
    (i) in his dwelling and not the initial aggressor; or
    (ii) a police officer or peace officer or a person assisting a police
    officer or a peace officer at the latter`s direction, acting pursuant to
    section 35.30; or
    (b) He reasonably believes that such other person is committing or
    attempting to commit a kidnapping, forcible rape, forcible sodomy or
    robbery; or
    (c) He reasonably believes that such other person is committing or
    attempting to commit a burglary, and the circumstances are such that the
    use of deadly physical force is authorized by subdivision three of
    section 35.20.


    I hope this helps.....more information can be found at http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article35.htm
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    Member Array charlie1826's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIABLO9489 View Post
    From Article 35 of the New York State Penal law
    S 35.15 Justification; use of physical force in defense of a person.
    1. A person may, subject to the provisions of subdivision two, use
    physical force upon another person when and to the extent he reasonably
    believes such to be necessary to defend himself or a third person from
    what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful
    physical force by such other person, unless:
    (a) The latter`s conduct was provoked by the actor himself with intent
    to cause physical injury to another person; or
    (b) The actor was the initial aggressor; except that in such case his
    use of physical force is nevertheless justifiable if he has withdrawn
    from the encounter and effectively communicated such withdrawal to such
    other person but the latter persists in continuing the incident by the
    use or threatened imminent use of unlawful physical force; or
    (c) The physical force involved is he product of a combat by
    agreement not specifically authorized by law.
    2. A person may not use deadly physical force upon another person
    under circumstances specified in subdivision one unless:
    (a) He reasonably believes that such other person is using or about to
    use deadly physical force. Even in such case, however, the actor may not
    use deadly physical force if he knows that he can with complete safety
    as to himself and others avoid the necessity of so doing by retreating;
    except that he is under no duty to retreat if he is:
    (i) in his dwelling and not the initial aggressor; or
    (ii) a police officer or peace officer or a person assisting a police
    officer or a peace officer at the latter`s direction, acting pursuant to
    section 35.30; or
    (b) He reasonably believes that such other person is committing or
    attempting to commit a kidnapping, forcible rape, forcible sodomy or
    robbery; or
    (c) He reasonably believes that such other person is committing or
    attempting to commit a burglary, and the circumstances are such that the
    use of deadly physical force is authorized by subdivision three of
    section 35.20.


    I hope this helps.....more information can be found at http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article35.htm
    That makes more sense, thank you.

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I shot at his arm but he tried to run just as I pulled the trigger and I guess he got hit in his po wittle heart,I'm really really sorry
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    Why can't they just shoot the gun out of the BGs' hands? Roy and Hopalong did it every Saturday morning.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
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    Senior Member Array dripster's Avatar
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    The Police Commissioner just brought a bunch of politicians to the NYPD's training range to have them shoot targets. His point was to show them how hard it is to just hit center of mass under command.
    Some I think got the point, but not all.
    One more step and it's on!

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array SARR001's Avatar
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    My lawyer would be telling the jury that I was aiming at the BG elbow as he was pointing a gun at me; I hit just a little below the elbow and it just happened to be COM.
    "Life's tough......It's even tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne

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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    To some people, "reality" is just a word in the dictionary.

    IIRC the national hit rate for LE is around 20-30%. I wonder what that rate would be trying to hit arms and legs instead of com.

  13. #12
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    Politicians that shoot will think that because they may be able to hit a target, standing still, that isn't shooting back at them or trying to kill them...

    is the way it really is.

    Except that it ain't.

    But they are Politicians...its not like they have a real clue about anything.
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

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    Bloomberg and cronies in action.
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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    So the officer was aiming for the arm and missed, hitting the guy COM. It happens......
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

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    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    They have got to be kidding me. Sooner or later, other police departments around the country will follow this nonsense.

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