HR 218 Law Enforcement Safety Act. Advice and input?

HR 218 Law Enforcement Safety Act. Advice and input?

This is a discussion on HR 218 Law Enforcement Safety Act. Advice and input? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I am looking for personal experience dealing with HR218. I've read up on it, but there are still some unclear points. As a LEO, A ...

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Thread: HR 218 Law Enforcement Safety Act. Advice and input?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array kb2wji's Avatar
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    HR 218 Law Enforcement Safety Act. Advice and input?

    I am looking for personal experience dealing with HR218. I've read up on it, but there are still some unclear points. As a LEO, A firearm can be carried on my person or in my vehicle in all 50 states, and across state lines without issue. What i'm unclear about are the restrictions. Anyone out there who can shed light would be appreciated!! As far as I can tell, a firearm can still NOT be carried on Federal property (pretty straight forward). What if a "No Firearms Allowed" sign is posted on STATE property? I think that over rides HR218. For example, I cannot carry while I am at a state park where the no guns sign is posted (right?) Also, I cannot carry on private propery where the owner has a no-gun policy.

    I'm looking for anyone who has researched the act more than I have. Mostly interested in where I can NOT carry.

    I really hope someday (and soon) a states carry permit is honored by ALL states. There was a thread about this, but that thread has been closed.


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    Member Array gmark340's Avatar
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    Per Section 926(b), you may not carry anywhere that the laws of the State 1) permit firearms to be prohibited on private property (presumably by notice in the form of a sign or even just being informed verbally by the owner) and 2) prohibit carrying on State or local government property.

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...6---B000-.html

    A simple, conservative starting place would be to follow the laws of each State as though you were a concealed carry permit holder of that State, which is essentially what you are under LEOSA. Some states carve out extra exceptions for LEOs, such as permitting carrying in establishments that serve alcohol or, before VA changed its law on restaurant carry, about carrying concealed in a restaurant that serves alcohol. However, you'd have to look at each State to find them.

    As well, there is some case law that speaks to "regardless of the law of the State law that prohibits carrying (again, in a bar), LEOSA overrides that (from the Sturgis case in which an out of state LEO was carrying in a bar, which is not permitted under SD law, but was exonerated). However, I would be careful of extrapolating too much from such cases since there have been so few. I wouldn't want to be a test case, myself. However, having said that, I have carried all over, including NYC and Wash DC, without incident. In DC, I have avoided Federal property but that's about it. I'm sure there are others who have their own view and experiences which may vary. Bottom line, be professional about it and carry your creds.

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    It's pretty simple, and you will generally find your most freedom in non-gunny states.

    Avoid government property and private property that doesn't want guns. Example, state laws says "No Guns in Place of Worship". Under LEOSA, as per my understanding, you can carry concealed there unless the pastor, or other form of management has either posted the establishment or made you aware that they don't want guns there. I'm not a lawyer, and this certainly isn't legal advice. I just carry under LEOSA.

    Another issue to keep in mind is state laws on magazine capacity. This law does nothing to nullify those. Hence, when I went to CA I carried a P35 in .40 S&W because it holds a ten round magazine, and CA has a "high capacity magazine ban". I may, or may not, have been in violation of CA law with a Glock 19 and it's fifteen round magazine. I personally didn't want to find out either.

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    Senior Member Array kb2wji's Avatar
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    Good catch. I'm currently in NY, carrying a PM9 with 7 rounds total. I almost took the XD which carries 13 rounds. I'm glad I didnt now that you brought up the point about mag capacity. I wish the details of HR218 were a little more, well, detailed.

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kb2wji View Post
    Good catch. I'm currently in NY, carrying a PM9 with 7 rounds total. I almost took the XD which carries 13 rounds. I'm glad I didnt now that you brought up the point about mag capacity. I wish the details of HR218 were a little more, well, detailed.
    Don't forget that hollowpoints are verbotten in New Jersey either.

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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Considering the capabilities that HR218 provides, I consider being conservative only prudent.

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    Senior Member Array kb2wji's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    Don't forget that hollowpoints are verbotten in New Jersey either.

    Biker
    So as a LEO, I have to take my JHP's out of my carry gun, and reload it with FMJ's during my 30 mile stint on 287 in Jersey? Yikes. It sounds like the bottom line is that if a local or state municipality wants to stick it to ya...they can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kb2wji View Post
    So as a LEO, I have to take my JHP's out of my carry gun, and reload it with FMJ's during my 30 mile stint on 287 in Jersey? Yikes. It sounds like the bottom line is that if a local or state municipality wants to stick it to ya...they can.
    Pretty much....I'd be happy to carry in NJ...
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    Senior Member Array kb2wji's Avatar
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    I guess another little "gotcha" is that my dept. requires a certain ammunition, which happens to be hollow point. If i'm in Jersey, and cannot carry HP, I have to switch to FMJ. But then im violating department policy, which would make the weapon NOT legit for carry. Therefore, I guess I cannot carry in Jersey either! I'm going to have to start looking at those "passing through NJ" threads a little more...

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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Does dept policy specifically state "hollow point" or could you maybe use one of the new expanding full metal jacket designs?
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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    An interesting and possibly problematic situation.
    While I woulld not want to test it, it would seem that policy that is in violation of a state law is an unlawful policy/order as it requires commiting a crime.

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    Senior Member Array kb2wji's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Does dept policy specifically state "hollow point" or could you maybe use one of the new expanding full metal jacket designs?
    I have to use Hydra-Shok only. They also state the weight for each caliber....

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    Senior Member Array kb2wji's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    An interesting and possibly problematic situation.
    While I woulld not want to test it, it would seem that policy that is in violation of a state law is an unlawful policy/order as it requires commiting a crime.
    Well, the policy states that I have to use Hydra-Shok. NJ states that my Hydro-Shoks are a no-go. If I carry Hydra-Shok in NJ, i'm violating NJ's state law. If I use FMJ, or a non-HP-hybrid, I am violating my own Dept. policy. Since I would be violating department policy, i'm guessing that my department no longer considers my pistol a legal pistol that I have qualified with (and since its no longer a pistol i've qualified with, HR218 no longer pertains to me). Basically, I'll avoid NJ and just take 81 on the way home

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    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kb2wji View Post
    Well, the policy states that I have to use Hydra-Shok. NJ states that my Hydro-Shoks are a no-go. If I carry Hydra-Shok in NJ, i'm violating NJ's state law. If I use FMJ, or a non-HP-hybrid, I am violating my own Dept. policy. Since I would be violating department policy, i'm guessing that my department no longer considers my pistol a legal pistol that I have qualified with (and since its no longer a pistol i've qualified with, HR218 no longer pertains to me). Basically, I'll avoid NJ and just take 81 on the way home
    Hopefully common sense would prevail. I'm sure the DA in NJ has some "real criminals" to prosecute, and would hopefully not waste time and resources prosecuting a LEO for a nonsensical law. Geez...
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    NJ has specific exemptions for HP's when carried by officers. We got into this discussion several years ago and a NJ cop showed me the state statutes, so it would appear that an LEO in the Peoples Republic of New Joisey would be OK to carry.
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