HR 218 and Military Law Enforcement - Page 2

HR 218 and Military Law Enforcement

This is a discussion on HR 218 and Military Law Enforcement within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by torrejon224 I am retired USAF and was An AFOSI SA. HR 218 does not apply to OSI, CID, NIS whether civilian or ...

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Thread: HR 218 and Military Law Enforcement

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by torrejon224
    I am retired USAF and was An AFOSI SA. HR 218 does not apply to OSI, CID, NIS whether civilian or military and does not apply to MP, SP, MA, etc. Our authority to carry was derived from the Dept of the Air Force or whatever branch assigned to. Authority to carry off-base or post depended on the Base Commander and local authorities. At least this was the case when I retired in 1988.
    Things have changed drastically since 1988, at least for Civilian Special Agents. Civilian Special Agents with all of the MCIO's (OSI, CID, CJIS, and NCIS) now have 24/7 carry authority based on statute. I'm not sure about the military agents, but civilian agents are good to go 24/7 and don't have to rely on HR 218 either way.
    Gonzo
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  2. #17
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    +1 to Gonzo....that is my understanding too....if you are an GS-1811 criminal investigator (exception being FAA 1811's assigned to the Civil Aviation internal security branch), you then are sworn personnel by statute and authorized to conduct warantless arrests and carry firearms 24/7....however, an agency's policy may dictate that their agents only carry during duty hours (or solely carry their issue weapon as my agency dictates) regardless of statute.
    USAF: Loving Our Obscene Amenities Since 1947

  3. #18
    Senior Member Array tanksoldier's Avatar
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    Remember that a regular MP is not a law enforcement officer. He or she is a Soldier acting under the authority of the post or activity commander.

    CID agents ARE federal law enforcement officers, carry off duty and have the power of arrest over civilians both on and off post.
    "I am a Soldier. I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

  4. #19
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tanksoldier
    Remember that a regular MP is not a law enforcement officer. He or she is a Soldier acting under the authority of the post or activity commander.

    CID agents ARE federal law enforcement officers, carry off duty and have the power of arrest over civilians both on and off post.

    Exactly. Your second sentence is one of the simplest, yet most accurate, descriptions I have read. It does not, in any way, take away from the importance of what they do, or mean that they are not "cops" in other cops eyes, it is simply a legal reality.
    Gonzo
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  5. #20
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by srfl
    +1 to Gonzo....that is my understanding too....if you are an GS-1811 criminal investigator (exception being FAA 1811's assigned to the Civil Aviation internal security branch), you then are sworn personnel by statute and authorized to conduct warantless arrests and carry firearms 24/7....however, an agency's policy may dictate that their agents only carry during duty hours (or solely carry their issue weapon as my agency dictates) regardless of statute.
    Srfl,
    Believe it or not, there are still a handful of series 1811 Criminal Investigators that do not have statutory law enforcement authority. They still rely on deputation as Special Deputy Marshals in order to carry firearms, make arrests, and conduct warrant-less searches. And a few of those do not use "blanket deputation", which is to say, they only deputize Agents on a case-by-case basis for a limited time. In other words, there are 1811 "Special Agents" who investigate criminal activity but do not carry guns or make arrests. Go figure. Actually, it was only after 09/11 that most OIG Special Agents were given statutory authority. Prior to that, only a very few OIG's had it. Now all do, except for a few.

    The authority for MCIO's has changed greatly over the past few years as well, as discussed above. However, I think most of the major changes only apply to the civilian Agents. That being said, I do think that all of the MCIO's now allow military Agents to carry 24/7 now as well, for self-protection and quick response.
    Gonzo
    "Skin that smokewagon!".

  6. #21
    Member Array Jaxon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badge4436
    Guys,

    Go to www.leaa.org and ask the question. They are the main group who pushed it through Congress.
    Actually it was the Fraternal Order of Police (FOP), but I suppose that's neither here nor there. Here is their FAQ:
    HR 218

    Here is a comment that may help with Federal employees:

    "I am a fully-sworn law enforcement officer with statutory law enforcement authority, but I work for a railroad, a private university or other nongovernmental employer. I attended the same police academy, received the same training and meet the same qualifications as my law enforcement colleagues in my State. Am I able to carry under the provisions of H.R. 218?"

    No. You must be an employee of a local, State or Federal governmental agency to carry a firearm under the provisions of this legislation.

    I don't know if Military LEO are considered Federal Government agency.

    RJ
    Sometimes there's Justice
    Sometimes there's Just Us

  7. #22
    Senior Member Array torrejon224's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatGonzo
    Things have changed drastically since 1988, at least for Civilian Special Agents. Civilian Special Agents with all of the MCIO's (OSI, CID, CJIS, and NCIS) now have 24/7 carry authority based on statute. I'm not sure about the military agents, but civilian agents are good to go 24/7 and don't have to rely on HR 218 either way.
    Gonzo
    I had the same 24/7 authority as the civilian agents, that has not changed but the real problem is with the Posse Commitatus act that prohibits us from acting as civilian LE. Although we conducted investigations off base with a vast majority of them on civilians either local LE of federal had to make the arrest. If it was military offf base, we were good to go. I just don't see it happening, they would have to set up yearly quals, issue ID, etc and knowing the military as I do there is a snowballs chance in hell of it happening. I was (am) POST certified in several states and have attended several academies but it doesn't mean squat, until the military pulls it's head from their collective asses it just won't happen and all the BS with the "killer" squads in Iraq sure isn't helping the cause. Military LE in a lot of places is laughed at by the locals and in some places for good cause. We have a very long way to go unfortunately but it's always worth trying!

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