Local 'Political' Issue Causes a Stir...

Local 'Political' Issue Causes a Stir...

This is a discussion on Local 'Political' Issue Causes a Stir... within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Everyone knows the significance of yesterday and the importance Patriot's Day has in American history. Everyone knows that thousands of people died needlessly in an ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 25

Thread: Local 'Political' Issue Causes a Stir...

  1. #1
    Member Array ecorrigan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northwest part of God's Country in Montana
    Posts
    220

    Local 'Political' Issue Causes a Stir...

    Everyone knows the significance of yesterday and the importance Patriot's Day has in American history. Everyone knows that thousands of people died needlessly in an attack on our shores that was the worst thing to happen on US soil. After the attack happened our president designated every September 11th to be Patriot's Day and one of a few days each and every year for our National Flag to be flown at half-mast.
    If this is the case and is such common knowledge why then did one of our local businesses decide they were above doing so? When a race fan asked Raceway Park north of Kalispell, Montana why they weren't flying their flag at half-mast their reply was: "It happened 9-years ago, get over it!"
    Tell that to the families of thousands who either died or were effected by the attack on our country. Tell those in New York, Washington DC and Pennsylvania to get over something that has permanently and so negatively marred not only their landscape but their lives as well.
    I personally refuse to get over something that has thrust us into such a heightened sense of fear and awareness that we can't recover from. I am appalled that someone would say something like that: "...get over it!" That's as bad as telling a WWII veteran or Viet Nam veteran that their continued pain and conflict is nothing and they need to get over that. Tell those that stumbled across a Concentration Camp full of Jewish detainees deep in Europe that it's nothing and they should forget about it.
    Bite your tongue!! None of these events are anything we'll get over soon. We remember them, not because we lost a multi-million dollar set of buildings, but because we lost lives that are priceless!!

    We will never forget!!
    In a crisis you don't rise to the occasion but rather default to your level of training!

    Forgiveness is between them and God, it's my job to arrange the meeting!
    -John W. Creasy (Man on Fire)


  2. #2
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    State of Discombobulation
    Posts
    5,253
    Since economic times are tough I would make it clear to the race track that I will be boycotting them in a written missive, and encourage all those around me to do the same.

    Let the race track get over their decreased revenue and bad publicity.

    Biker

  3. #3
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    12,110
    You know, time heals. There is a difference between forgetting something and "getting over it." We do get over the passing of loved ones and move on with our lives though we may remember them every moment in one way or another.

    The owner of the race track or its manager is perfectly free to fly the flag or not, to raise it high or to lower it for remembrance of the day. You are perfectly free to hold whatever emotions and views you might choose to hold.

    My take, the guy who answered you was either a young kid who was 10 at the time or an irritable person giving an unwise response. Or, perhaps you approached him in less than a friendly way seeing as you were upset by what you viewed as a lack of courtesy and respect.

    9/11 was a stunning calamity that should be marked in our collective memories but should not be an excuse for making specific demands on others. How many of us actually pay much attention nowadays to either Memorial Day or Veteran's Day, other than to run the BBQ? I suspect few here actually know the origins of Veteran's Day, Nov. 11. Memories fade and time heals.

  4. #4
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    State of Discombobulation
    Posts
    5,253
    You know, time heals.
    In my expirience I don't find that to be true.

    Time is not a healer, only a prolonger of pain. Those that say "time heals" have probably not expirienced much in the way of loss, as I find that sentiment to be the biggest bunch of bovine fecal matter.

    Biker

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    2,051
    As is occasionally the case, I'll take the contrary position here and say that I do not recognize "Patriot's Day," which strikes me as being absurd. September 11 was a tragedy, and nothing to enshrine with a holiday.

    Let's go over the rough parameters of what happened, so we are clear on it: The US backed the mujaheddin in their resistance against the Soviets in Afghanistan. Our main man in the fight was Osama bin Laden. When the chips were down, we abandoned them to swing in the wind. Eventually, they outlasted the Soviets and regained control of their country. But bin Laden nursed a grudge at how we'd betrayed him, and he ginned up Islamic resentment against us, forming al Qaeda. We knew they were an emerging threat, dabbling in terrorism on an international scale, but ignored COMINT and HUMINT and got hit hard in NYC as a result.

    And as I recall, we've always had terrorism. Always. From John Wilkes Booth onward. Some of you may remember the old "I'm hijacking this plane to Cuba!" jokes, the Mad Bomber in caricatures. Carlos the Jackal. The Symbionese Liberation Army and Patty Hearst. The Manson Family. The Red Brigades. The Shining Path. The FNLA. The IRA. The Weathermen. Aum Shinrikyo.

    A very important article was circulated in the weeks following 9/11; it was a message to you and me from a British writer, who wanted to tell us a few things about terrorism. He said that we had to be very careful, because large-scale, devastating terrorist attacks cause fear, anger, and then stupidity. The first two are reasonable and nothing you can change, but the third is a choice and oh my friends did we ever get stupid. Patriot Act. Invading Iraq. Torture. Suspension of Habeas Corpus and civil liberties. The Constitution and the rule of law were overturned in favor of the expediency of national security. TSA and HSA followed in turn.

    We lost a very great deal not because of that attack, but because we forgot who we are and in pursuit of temporary security we sacrificed essential liberty and like Franklin said, people who do that deserve neither. Remember how the British reacted to the German bombardment of London? They gritted their teeth and went about their business. They acted like it was nothing and refused to let the enemy see them cower in fear.

    That's what I think we should do. Get back to our strong, confident mindset and stop running around like chickens with our heads cut off every time some turbaned fool shouts "boo!" at us. I proudly celebrate the Fourth of July and fly the flag on all appropriate occasions, but September 11 to me isn't anything to build a fetish around. It's a moment where we stumbled and it's taught us that the correct response to a terror attack involves being smart and brave, not craven and weak - it's a chance to reach inside ourselves and stand tall, and show that we cannot be beaten by anyone or anything that walks the face of this Earth.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  6. #6
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    12,110
    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    In my expirience I don't find that to be true.

    Time is not a healer, only a prolonger of pain. Those that say "time heals" have probably not expirienced much in the way of loss, as I find that sentiment to be the biggest bunch of bovine fecal matter.

    Biker
    Biker, one time when I was having a rough time an acquaintance looked at me and proclaimed, "you're old enough to know that all problems go away."

    As I get older, and approach an inevitable end, I have grown to appreciate that wisdom. ALL problems go away. Doesn't mean they don't hurt at the time. Doesn't mean they will get resolved the way we would like. But time does heal.

    With regard to this episode of 9/11 we certainly want to remember. We want to cherish if we actually knew someone harmed. But, life goes on and we must live it the best way possible. Remembering, yes. Perpetual sorrow, perpetual angst, no.

    Perhaps the fellow who didn't lower the flag understood that? More than likely though he just wasn't really thinking when he responded rudely.

  7. #7
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    12,110
    Quote Originally Posted by shockwave View Post
    As is occasionally the case, I'll take the contrary position here and say that I do not recognize "Patriot's Day," which strikes me as being absurd. September 11 was a tragedy, and nothing to enshrine with a holiday.

    Let's go over the rough parameters of what happened, so we are clear on it: The US backed the mujaheddin in their resistance against the Soviets in Afghanistan. Our main man in the fight was Osama bin Laden. When the chips were down, we abandoned them to swing in the wind. Eventually, they outlasted the Soviets and regained control of their country. But bin Laden nursed a grudge at how we'd betrayed him, and he ginned up Islamic resentment against us, forming al Qaeda. We knew they were an emerging threat, dabbling in terrorism on an international scale, but ignored COMINT and HUMINT and got hit hard in NYC as a result.

    And as I recall, we've always had terrorism. Always. From John Wilkes Booth onward. Some of you may remember the old "I'm hijacking this plane to Cuba!" jokes, the Mad Bomber in caricatures. Carlos the Jackal. The Symbionese Liberation Army and Patty Hearst. The Manson Family. The Red Brigades. The Shining Path. The FNLA. The IRA. The Weathermen. Aum Shinrikyo.

    A very important article was circulated in the weeks following 9/11; it was a message to you and me from a British writer, who wanted to tell us a few things about terrorism. He said that we had to be very careful, because large-scale, devastating terrorist attacks cause fear, anger, and then stupidity. The first two are reasonable and nothing you can change, but the third is a choice and oh my friends did we ever get stupid. Patriot Act. Invading Iraq. Torture. Suspension of Habeas Corpus and civil liberties. The Constitution and the rule of law were overturned in favor of the expediency of national security. TSA and HSA followed in turn.

    We lost a very great deal not because of that attack, but because we forgot who we are and in pursuit of temporary security we sacrificed essential liberty and like Franklin said, people who do that deserve neither. Remember how the British reacted to the German bombardment of London? They gritted their teeth and went about their business. They acted like it was nothing and refused to let the enemy see them cower in fear.

    That's what I think we should do. Get back to our strong, confident mindset and stop running around like chickens with our heads cut off every time some turbaned fool shouts "boo!" at us. I proudly celebrate the Fourth of July and fly the flag on all appropriate occasions, but September 11 to me isn't anything to build a fetish around. It's a moment where we stumbled and it's taught us that the correct response to a terror attack involves being smart and brave, not craven and weak - it's a chance to reach inside ourselves and stand tall, and show that we cannot be beaten by anyone or anything that walks the face of this Earth.
    Very nicely put. +100.

  8. #8
    kpw
    kpw is offline
    VIP Member Array kpw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2,160
    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    In my expirience I don't find that to be true.

    Time is not a healer, only a prolonger of pain. Those that say "time heals" have probably not expirienced much in the way of loss, as I find that sentiment to be the biggest bunch of bovine fecal matter.

    Biker
    I agree. The pain of loss doesn't just go away. Over time, you just learn to live with it.

    shockwave, I thought bin Laden's first beef with us started during the Gulf War. He was furious at infidels being allowed in the holy land and being rejected by the Saudis when he offered the mujahadeen's help. His ego was bruised and he wasn't allowed to become the savior of the holy land and islam.
    "In a republic this rule ought to be observed: that the majority should not have the predominant power." -
    -- Marcus Tullius Cicero

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array DaveJay's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    536
    Quote Originally Posted by kpw View Post
    I agree. The pain of loss doesn't just go away. Over time, you just learn to live with it.

    shockwave, I thought bin Laden's first beef with us started during the Gulf War. He was furious at infidels being allowed in the holy land and being rejected by the Saudis when he offered the mujahadeen's help. His ego was bruised and he wasn't allowed to become the savior of the holy land and islam.
    Yep......
    VCDL Member
    "Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready."
    Theodore Roosevelt

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array automatic slim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    The western edge of The Confederacy
    Posts
    2,198
    What BikerRN said!
    "First gallant South Carolina nobly made the stand."
    Edge of Darkness

  11. #11
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    12,110
    Quote Originally Posted by kpw View Post
    I agree. The pain of loss doesn't just go away. Over time, you just learn to live with it.

    shockwave, I thought bin Laden's first beef with us started during the Gulf War. He was furious at infidels being allowed in the holy land and being rejected by the Saudis when he offered the mujahadeen's help. His ego was bruised and he wasn't allowed to become the savior of the holy land and islam.
    Uh, his first beef with us is simply that he is nuts. Everything else is excuse.

    I always figured that the religious and ideological and political stuff was cover for a more insane motivation.

    As I understand it, his family was ultra wealthy from building contracting-construction. I think the guy started out with some sort of "fetish" about the Towers because they were huge construction projects and he was somehow deeply jealous. That's why he targeted them, twice. There are plenty of great targets around the world and in the US, but The Towers were something to be jealous of.

    That's my armchair psychoanalysis and I'm sticking with it. His motive is--- morbid jealousy. In short, he's "quacked."

  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array AutoFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Arid Zone A
    Posts
    1,563
    Hey, everyone's entitled to his or her opinion about flying the flag and what 9/11 means, and I have my opinion that it was a cowardly attack on civilian targets that had no way to defend themselves. And if you don't want to respect the deaths of over 3000 of your fellow Americans going about their business, I don't have to respect your opinion or support your business.

  13. #13
    Moderator
    Array RETSUPT99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    45,511
    Quote Originally Posted by AutoFan View Post
    Hey, everyone's entitled to his or her opinion about flying the flag and what 9/11 means, and I have my opinion that it was a cowardly attack on civilian targets that had no way to defend themselves. And if you don't want to respect the deaths of over 3000 of your fellow Americans going about their business, I don't have to respect your opinion or support your business.
    I feel the same way.
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

    ***********************************
    Certified Glock Armorer
    NRA Life Member[/B]

  14. #14
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    State of Discombobulation
    Posts
    5,253
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Uh, his first beef with us is simply that he is nuts. Everything else is excuse.



    That's my armchair psychoanalysis and I'm sticking with it. His motive is--- morbid jealousy. In short, he's "quacked."
    Pigs must be flying, as I finally agree with Mr. Hopyard.

    Biker

  15. #15
    Ex Member Array EB31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    539
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    You know, time heals. There is a difference between forgetting something and "getting over it." We do get over the passing of loved ones and move on with our lives though we may remember them every moment in one way or another.

    The owner of the race track or its manager is perfectly free to fly the flag or not, to raise it high or to lower it for remembrance of the day. You are perfectly free to hold whatever emotions and views you might choose to hold.

    My take, the guy who answered you was either a young kid who was 10 at the time or an irritable person giving an unwise response. Or, perhaps you approached him in less than a friendly way seeing as you were upset by what you viewed as a lack of courtesy and respect.

    9/11 was a stunning calamity that should be marked in our collective memories but should not be an excuse for making specific demands on others. How many of us actually pay much attention nowadays to either Memorial Day or Veteran's Day, other than to run the BBQ? I suspect few here actually know the origins of Veteran's Day, Nov. 11. Memories fade and time heals.
    +1. Well said.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Just wanted to stir the pot ;)
    By ExHippie in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: February 4th, 2010, 02:38 PM
  2. Local political campaign on VA concealed handguns in restaurants
    By packinnova in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: June 14th, 2009, 09:45 AM
  3. This should stir up a hornet's nest.
    By sgtD in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 137
    Last Post: March 27th, 2009, 08:46 AM
  4. sigh... this should stir up something
    By gordo23 in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 58
    Last Post: October 9th, 2006, 05:41 PM
  5. Just to stir our thoughts
    By P95Carry in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: January 14th, 2006, 09:13 AM