Where's the line between civil liberties and safety.

This is a discussion on Where's the line between civil liberties and safety. within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; This week in the news. We've seen the Government ask to have access to secure encryption. Also a plot terrorist had to attack US citizens ...

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Thread: Where's the line between civil liberties and safety.

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    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    Where's the line between civil liberties and safety.

    This week in the news. We've seen the Government ask to have access to secure encryption. Also a plot terrorist had to attack US citizens in Europe's tourist hot spots was uncovered.
    That and the fact that most Americans feel that we will have another major attack on the US soon, made me wonder. Where do we draw the line between civil liberties and safety?

    If at all?
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
    -Tony Soprano

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    Member Array Topspeed's Avatar
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    I have to quote Ben Franklin on that. "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchace a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety".

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topspeed View Post
    I have to quote Ben Franklin on that. "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchace a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety".
    I agree.

    Biker

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Reality is that it's darned difficult to catch whiff of a person's evil intentions prior to the fact of actual actions without some sort of advance warning, either through catching up with a criminal's trail, or recognizing certain potential indicators/clues, or following up on actual leads. My opinion? Too damned bad. One cost of having an open society is that your actions speak for you ... criminal and upstanding alike. And that means that crimes will occur, leaving those in the wake to deal with it as it occurs. IMO, there are only two paths: (a) the slippery slope toward destruction as a free People; and (b) a free People that willingly acknowledges essential liberties such as the right of everyone to be armed and prepared to defend against crime if it occurs, and a simple, effective legal system that supports exactly that. Sadly, the USA is pretty much solidly on the former path, in spite of certain bright spots here and there.

    As for cracking into an encrypted data stream, I'd say that authorities had better have justification outside the simple fact it's encrypted, else the "justification" doesn't exist. For example, if Johnny CrackDealer is engaged in the business and leaves some clues, including having some of his gang informing on him, well that's Johnny's bad luck. He's free game and, if warrants are issued by a judge that has agreed the circumstances justify it, tapping, capturing and attempting to crack his communications is then fair game. Without high walls between what an "official" dares do and what an official might actually accomplish, we're sunk. But if that's going to be the case, then by golly we can't very well go around stripping everyone other than "officials" the capacity to withstand attack themselves as such things occur.
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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    With the erosion of civil liberties in the name of safety, they will have achieved one of their goals. To make our society as repressive as their own.

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    Distinguished Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    the fact that most Americans feel that we will have another major attack on the US soon
    On what basis do you state that this is "a fact"? The security blogs I follow suggest exactly the opposite. With the amount of time that's passed since 9/11, "most Americans" have turned their attention to things that are a LOT more pressing than the 1-in-a-million chance they'd ever be involved in a terroristic-type incident. Like hanging onto the mortgage, dealing with college tuition, affording health insurance, etc.

    Threat of terrorism is way, way down the list of things people give a damn about.

    As for the encryption business, I think it came as a surprise to many to discover that the government wasn't already intercepting and monitoring all communications of every type. We know they scan all web traffic and e-mail, under the Bush admin all that stuff was put into place at the main Internet switching nodes maintained by ATT and others. Personally, I had no idea that Blackberries were so tightly encrypted that they're digging into them now.

    Actually, I suspect that what's more likely is that the scale of surveillance is so broad now that sooner or later the proof of it is going to emerge one way or the other, so they'd like to get that "get out of jail free" card now, before that happens. Many provisions in the Bill of Rights have been removed already, so it's kind of important to avoid electing hardliners and zero-tolerance security freaks to high office. There's some on both sides of the aisle.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

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    VIP Member Array automatic slim's Avatar
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    Taking away freedoms won't stop terrorists. Killing them instead of hiring lawyers for them will. Hint,hint Mr. Obama.......
    "First gallant South Carolina nobly made the stand."
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    Distinguished Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    Hint,hint Mr. Obama.......
    Not to get all political or anything, but have you checked the number of terrorist al-Qaeda killed under Obama's admin as opposed to the previous one? We've wiped out a bunch of these dim witted people that want to die for Allah.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

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    Member Array r0rtiz's Avatar
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    I dont think that the OP was stating that it was a fact that another attack is coming, but rather that many "feel" another attck is looming. This, according the a recent Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey, is a fact. I'm not trying to argue, but I think you may have misunderstood the OP.

    In response to the question, it is never okay to sacrifice civil liberties for security.
    "Surely the preservation and enjoyment of the freedoms vouchsafed to us by the Constitution of the United States will require eternal vigilance even to the guarding of it with our lives. We must ever keep faith with our founding fathers by keeping faith with our Constitution."

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    Member Array Greg Foster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    I agree.

    Biker
    I also agree 100%

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    Member Array oak1971's Avatar
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    I'll take care of my own safety, now get out of the way and let me do it.
    I'm your Huckleberry.

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    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by automatic slim View Post
    Taking away freedoms won't stop terrorists. Killing them instead of hiring lawyers for them will. Hint,hint Mr. Obama.......
    The only thing I'd add to that is that the killing should be done after all possible useful information has been water boarded out of them.

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    Freedom is not about being safe, it is about being free.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    Freedom is not about being safe, it is about being free.
    I AGREE COMPLETELY...
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    Freedom is not about being safe, it is about being free.
    I agree too!
    "The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"

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