TSA Absurdness - Page 4

TSA Absurdness

This is a discussion on TSA Absurdness within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Wouldn't alot of the body scanner conflict be eliminated if they just used a body scanner that doesn't show human flesh such as an x-ray? ...

Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 104

Thread: TSA Absurdness

  1. #46
    Member Array centermass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lake Charles, LA
    Posts
    148
    Wouldn't alot of the body scanner conflict be eliminated if they just used a body scanner that doesn't show human flesh such as an x-ray? From what I'm seeing, most of the conflict arises from the fact that the body scanners show actual physical form. (external body parts) I've seen some of the unleakable photo's that have been leaked and it shows physical attributes. The photo's that I saw were good enough to tell what type of panties the woman was wearing. I personally don't have a problem with them scanning me, but would have issues with them scanning my 12 year old daughter or wife. I would have an even BIGGER problem with them physically touching my daughter and wife and causing discomfort. So, why not just use technology that has been around for years and do away with the conflict? An x-ray will detect any metal objects, while not showing external characteristics. Plastic explosives would show up as darker spots and would also be detected. Knifes, razors, guns, and explosives internal or external would show up. To me, an x-ray would actually be more effective as it would show internal devices. I doubt that there would be as many people complaining about pictures of their skeleton. Case in point, on a particular mtv series that used to play regularly a doctor was able to detect a hotwheels car in someones anus with an x-ray. Hopefully that isn't offensive to anyone.
    Ruger GP100 .357 mag
    Ruger p-90 .45acp
    Taurus PT-140 acp
    Rossi .357 mag
    Hi-point .45 acp
    DTI AR-15


  2. #47
    Member Array centermass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lake Charles, LA
    Posts
    148
    I just looked up a technology called lodox statscan that can take a full body image in 10 seconds. In the images that I saw you couldn't tell if the subject was male or female. The images would still show foreign objects, but apparently not physical attributes. The technology would take adaptation to work, but would cut down on the mental discomfort that results from the images that the currect scanners produce.


    To me this technology would be even better because it shows internal images that would be useful in detecting internal contraband.
    Ruger GP100 .357 mag
    Ruger p-90 .45acp
    Taurus PT-140 acp
    Rossi .357 mag
    Hi-point .45 acp
    DTI AR-15

  3. #48
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Rocky Mountain High in Colorado
    Posts
    1,706
    Quote Originally Posted by punk rocka View Post
    ..you don't have a Constitutional right to fly on an airplane .
    I get so sick and tired of seeing this stuff,you don't have the explicitly spelled out constitutional right to scratch your @ in public either but I'll bet you do it.
    Last edited by HotGuns; November 23rd, 2010 at 07:41 PM. Reason: workaround

  4. #49
    Distinguished Member Array Knightrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    1,324
    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    ^^^^^ Sadly I don't find it funny at all. As a father that video makes me want to punch someone right in the mouth.
    Oh, don't get me wrong, I think that the TSA has gone to far.
    Glock: G22 .40 S&W and G23 .40 S&W Sig Sauer: P938 9mm Smith and Wesson: Model 437 .38 Spl, Model 65 357 Mag, and Sigma SW9VE 9mm

  5. #50
    VIP Member
    Array TX expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    3,787
    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    I get so sick and tired of seeing this stuff you don't have the explicitly spelled out constitutional right to scratch your @ in public either but I'll bet you do it.
    LOL. Not sure why you would get bent out of shape over that statement but it's accurate, even if you don't like it. Having the choice of doing something and having a Constitutional right to do something are two different things. The post I was replying to was referring to the TSA violating a Constitutional right and my point is that you don't have Constitutional rights when it comes to private enterprise. Your right is to decide if you are going to give them your business or not, but you don't get to choose which "rights" you retain on their property, they do.
    Last edited by HotGuns; November 23rd, 2010 at 07:42 PM. Reason: quoting language workaround

  6. #51
    Member Array woodsong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    55
    Quote Originally Posted by bigmacque View Post
    What would you all prefer? Nothing? Or profiling, as the Israeli's do? Israel airline security personel interview every single passenger, so get ready to have to be at the airport four hours before your scheduled flight.
    Completely false. Just got back from Israel -- security there was less a pain than US security. Was not interviewed, nor were most folks. Profiling means they decide which passengers may pose a threat -- these folks get extra attention. Furthermore, their profiling isn't arbitrary and random (like ours would be), but is based on carefully determines user profiles.

  7. #52
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,663
    Quote Originally Posted by punk rocka View Post
    That'll be interesting to see play out. I doubt anything will come of it though since you don't have a Constitutional right to fly on an airplane and you can easily avoid being "searched" by not flying. The general public's Constitutional rights gets "suspended" on private property in favor of the property owner's rights and airplanes and terminals leased to public or private corporations are considered private property.
    Since when are airports private property? They are almost always owned by one governmental entity or another. More over, the searches are being conducted by government, not by private companies, that is, the airlines themselves.

    There have been a handful of rulings in which the courts have twisted reality to allow airport searches notwithstanding the 4A itself, but as HG points out, even so, they have likely overreached.

    In any case, they have over reached in the sense that they are losing public support, and when something loses public support there is a tipping point at which Congress decides to do something. We are at that point. There was news video yesterday (probably only shown locally) of a Congresswoman standing at an entrance to a major airport pleading with patrons to remember that the people doing the screening are patriots too; in other words, begging that travelers not give TSA workers a hard time out of a sense of patriotism. With this charged atmosphere, something is going to give. It will have to.

    Right now TSA is hoping that things will calm down, but I don't think this one will go away. And for those of you who think it is OK to water down 4A for the safety benefits of stronger law enforcement or "security," that was the same argument always used for restricting 2A. It is always an absurd argument to use that our BOR doesn't mean what it says or somehow doesn't apply due to a whimsical rationalization.

  8. #53
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,663
    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    The TSA may in fact be violating the "Border Search Exception" of the 4th Amendment.

    "Searches conducted at the United States border or the equivalent of the border (such as an international airport) may be conducted without a warrant or probable cause subject to the "border-search" exception.[67] Most border searches may be conducted entirely at random, without any level of suspicion, pursuant to U.S. Customs and Border Protection plenary search authority. However, searches that intrude upon a traveler's personal dignity and privacy interests, such as strip and body cavity searches, must be supported by "reasonable suspicion."

    It was just reported on the news that a lawsuit has been filed against the TSA for this violation.
    Unless the TSA can articulate that every single passenger is suspicious, it would appear that they are in the wrong here.

    If you dont know your rights, you might as well not have any.
    HG, I believe you are absolutely right, but sadly I don't think our courts are going to agree with you when the pushing comes to shoving. They'll just determine that under the circumstances, these things are reasonable searches.

  9. #54
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    2,319
    nevermind
    Glock 19
    Kahr PM9
    LMT-M4
    Mossberg 590
    Shodan, Jujutsu

  10. #55
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Oceanfront Property
    Posts
    3,850
    Hmmmmm

    federally protected activities
    summary:

    The portion of section 245 of title 18 which is primarily enforced by the criminal section makes it unlawful to willfully injure, intimidate or interfere with any person, or to attempt to do so, by force or threat of force, because of that other person’s race, color, religion or national origin and because of his/her activity as one of the following:

    O a student at or applicant for admission to a public school or public college

    o a participant in a benefit, service, privilege, program, facility or activity provided or administered by a state or local government

    o an applicant for private or state employment; a private or state employee; a member or applicant for membership in a labor organization or hiring hall; or an applicant for employment through an employment agency, labor organization or hiring hall

    o a juror or prospective juror in state court

    o a traveler or user of a facility of interstate commerce or common carrier

  11. #56
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    4,977
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post

    In any case, they have over reached in the sense that they are losing public support, and when something loses public support there is a tipping point at which Congress decides to do something. We are at that point. There was news video yesterday (probably only shown locally) of a Congresswoman standing at an entrance to a major airport pleading with patrons to remember that the people doing the screening are patriots too; in other words, begging that travelers not give TSA workers a hard time out of a sense of patriotism. With this charged atmosphere, something is going to give. It will have to.
    I don't think we are at that tipping point yet. Multiple news outlets are reporting surveys showing two thirds of survey repsondents are in favor of the current enhanced security checks. Until it gets closer to fifty-fifty don't bet on the average politician getting involved in any meaningful way. The only exception I would expect is Ron Paul who has already introduced a bill but I doubt he will get much support for it.
    If we are to believe the survey to be correct what we have is a very vocal minority and a sensationalist media. I am sure all the local stations have had stories about "abuses" at the hands of the TSA recently. I know we have in Houston. But to put it in perspective, we are hearing about how many incidents? And how many million people get screened at airports every day?
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

  12. #57
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,663
    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    I don't think we are at that tipping point yet. Multiple news outlets are reporting surveys showing two thirds of survey repsondents are in favor of the current enhanced security checks. Until it gets closer to fifty-fifty don't bet on the average politician getting involved in any meaningful way. The only exception I would expect is Ron Paul who has already introduced a bill but I doubt he will get much support for it.
    If we are to believe the survey to be correct what we have is a very vocal minority and a sensationalist media. I am sure all the local stations have had stories about "abuses" at the hands of the TSA recently. I know we have in Houston. But to put it in perspective, we are hearing about how many incidents? And how many million people get screened at airports every day?
    You could well be right, but you are also overlooking the rather obvious political points that can be gained by one side against the other by holding hearings and making lots of noise. Also, don't confuse people cooperating with agreeing. I am a news junky, and read many of the public comments expressed by others on the various news reports. There is significant anger out there. And it isn't without considerable justification.

    People trying to get to their holiday vacation aren't going to make waves, but the business community will, after the holidays.

    When I was still working for Uncle my job had some considerable travel opportunities, fortunately mostly at my discretion. I'd not do the travel in today's environment. I flew to the East Coast last two weeks of Oct. Next trip, I'll not fly. If enough people --and it doesn't take many-- choose not to fly the profits will go out of the industry and the business community will take up the cudgel.

  13. #58
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,108
    The best part is that this is being done so the terrorists don't win....... NEWS FLASH! look around! The terrorists are doing next to nothing and disrupting our lives and economy at every turn.
    Sorry, Stick - they have already won; their plan is just to inflict the "death by a thousand cuts"; They knew from the beginning they could not win a straight up fight with us, so they just destroy our personal freedoms little by little.
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

  14. #59
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,108
    The only exception I would expect is Ron Paul who has already introduced a bill but I doubt he will get much support for it.
    And we should not need another "bill" or "act" to address something we already had.

    I flew to the East Coast last two weeks of Oct. Next trip, I'll not fly. If enough people --and it doesn't take many-- choose not to fly the profits will go out of the industry and the business community will take up the cudgel.
    This I totally agree with; I have already told my employer and family that I will no longer travel by air. If 10 million people were of the same mind, THAT would get their attention....
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

  15. #60
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    4,292
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    You could well be right, but you are also overlooking the rather obvious political points that can be gained by one side against the other by holding hearings and making lots of noise. Also, don't confuse people cooperating with agreeing. I am a news junky, and read many of the public comments expressed by others on the various news reports. There is significant anger out there. And it isn't without considerable justification.

    People trying to get to their holiday vacation aren't going to make waves, but the business community will, after the holidays.

    When I was still working for Uncle my job had some considerable travel opportunities, fortunately mostly at my discretion. I'd not do the travel in today's environment. I flew to the East Coast last two weeks of Oct. Next trip, I'll not fly. If enough people --and it doesn't take many-- choose not to fly the profits will go out of the industry and the business community will take up the cudgel.
    I can agree with this on the business side. I've already been playing that game here where I'm at. We've switched to doing almost entirely remote/virtual meetings and video conference calls.. I absolutely refuse to fly until all this horse poop is done. Good thing I don't have family on the other side of the country because it would take me a week to get there to visit.

    As it is, most of the fam are all on or near the east coast so I only have a few states to drive through for visits and such.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

israli security method

,

unitard tsa

,

unitards plane ride security

Click on a term to search for related topics.

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors