Plot to Slaughter Hundreds of Families w/ Children at Portland Christmas Event Friday

This is a discussion on Plot to Slaughter Hundreds of Families w/ Children at Portland Christmas Event Friday within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by SIGguy229 I don't think this piece of garbage knows anyone...either way, he needs to be beaten with a can of and then ...

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Thread: Plot to Slaughter Hundreds of Families w/ Children at Portland Christmas Event Friday

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    I don't think this piece of garbage knows anyone...either way, he needs to be beaten with a can of and then thrown down a hole...
    Exactly, and I don't think he had the ability to acquire anything to further his ends; not sharp enough to do it without getting caught.

    He may not have been technically "entrapped" but he sure as heck was encouraged and helped along in a direction he should not have gone. It would have been smarter to get a mental hold on him.

    This story isn't really about protecting us, it is about more illusion of protecting us.

    In post 43 Snowman states as follows: "The overwhelming majority of terrorist bombings and gun-and-grenades attacks worldwide have been carried out by "befuddled", usually illterate, and very often teen-aged muslims."

    However accurate this may be for incidents overseas, Al Quida attacks, the actual successful ones, e.g., Hasan, within in the US have been carried out by educated folks and not the befuddled.

    For all of you who want profiling the heads up lesson really should be that we need to be looking at a different demographic than the one this moron came from. The danger lies elsewhere. This kid wouldn't have pulled anything off.

    That he is nuts, as distinct from being a real terrorist, is evident in the fact that he bragged about it openly. Does anyone think a serious minded terrorist working for a real organization, and being coached or having been trained, would be that open? I don't.

    I think this kid is in the same category as the retired elderly cop in Fl who was accused of threatening the president; more lunatic than threat.

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  3. #47
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    Granted citizenship and given an education? Then this individual spouts "I hate all Americans" My thoughts" Bye, Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya" Temped to give him a suit made out of bacon as a parting gift.

  4. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    In post 43 Snowman states as follows: "The overwhelming majority of terrorist bombings and gun-and-grenades attacks worldwide have been carried out by "befuddled", usually illterate, and very often teen-aged muslims."

    However accurate this may be for incidents overseas, Al Quida attacks, the actual successful ones, e.g., Hasan, within in the US have been carried out by educated folks and not the befuddled.
    Agreed. But the threat to the U.S. also clearly includes what the media now calls "home grown" terrorists, usually of the "lone wolf" types. Native-born or imported losers who were born Muslim, or converted to the faith in U.S. prisons or elsewhere here. American citizens in the technical sense. We've got to be able to deal with either threat. True Al-Qaeda's opsec is so tight that they're the toughest to penetrate, but innocent Americans can be slaughtered just as dead by bungling, loud-mouth lone wolf losers, and we'd be remiss if we failed to hammer them into the ground by any means available, and try to get smarter in the process. We have be "lucky" every time, and they have to be "lucky" only once. Worldwide, it's the "educated" ones who recruit the "befuddled" ones to strap bombs to themselves...and "worldwide" style terrorism will be here among us, a lot sooner than any of us are gonna like, if we don't pull out all the stops to prevent it. More innocent people have been killed in small attacks than in grand-slam 9-11 style attacks...and those who die in small attacks die just as bitterly. We aren't gonna get out of this without getting a bloody nose, and there's no way to pick up a turd by the "clean" end.
    I count myself nowise weaker in war, or grapple of battle, than Grendel himself. --- The Beowulf Epic

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    Make an example out of him and hang him high.
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    The "RELIGION OF PEACE" at work.

  7. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowman366 View Post
    Agreed. But the threat to the U.S. also clearly includes what the media now calls "home grown" terrorists, usually of the "lone wolf" types. Native-born or imported losers who were born Muslim, or converted to the faith in U.S. prisons or elsewhere here. American citizens in the technical sense. We've got to be able to deal with either threat. True Al-Qaeda's opsec is so tight that they're the toughest to penetrate, but innocent Americans can be slaughtered just as dead by bungling, loud-mouth lone wolf losers, and we'd be remiss if we failed to hammer them into the ground by any means available, and try to get smarter in the process. We have be "lucky" every time, and they have to be "lucky" only once. Worldwide, it's the "educated" ones who recruit the "befuddled" ones to strap bombs to themselves...and "worldwide" style terrorism will be here among us, a lot sooner than any of us are gonna like, if we don't pull out all the stops to prevent it. More innocent people have been killed in small attacks than in grand-slam 9-11 style attacks...and those who die in small attacks die just as bitterly. We aren't gonna get out of this without getting a bloody nose, and there's no way to pick up a turd by the "clean" end.
    Fine, just so long as we aren't just picking the low hanging fruit and braggin on it while the really dangerous ones go unnoticed, OK?

    There are always dangerous fools, jerks, lunatics, deluded, (pick your adjective) living amongst us who pose a threat or who appear as if they could pose a threat. This dude looks to me more like he falls in the category of disorganized mental case than "terrorist." And while we focus LE attention on him, play games to make him think he is doing something, the resources needed to look for the folks with actual capability are being diverted. That's my gripe with a case like this one. At some point it should have been apparent that however much dedication he had, he was a fruitcake.

    Meanwhile, our graduate schools and colleges are full of foreign students, at least some of whom don't like us much, and who have the actual smarts to do us damage. So we teach them chemistry, nuclear physics, molecular genetics, computer science, -- see where I'm going. We are looking for our present under the wrong tree. That's what is bothering me about this incident.

    Earlier on he should have been picked up and dumped in a psych ward as a danger to others instead of playing it out.

  8. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by shockwave View Post
    As with many recent examples, this was a manufactured crime built by the FBI to entrap a befuddled fool who couldn't and wouldn't have done anything without extensive encouragement and support.
    With all due respect, if you are not joking then you must be taking very strong medicines .


    Good job FBI
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  9. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by GM View Post
    With all due respect, if you are not joking then you must be taking very strong medicines .


    Good job FBI
    Consider the source......His typical point of view

  10. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Fine, just so long as we aren't just picking the low hanging fruit and braggin on it while the really dangerous ones go unnoticed, OK? At some point it should have been apparent that however much dedication he had, he was a fruitcake.

    Meanwhile, our graduate schools and colleges are full of foreign students, at least some of whom don't like us much, and who have the actual smarts to do us damage. So we teach them chemistry, nuclear physics, molecular genetics, computer science, -- see where I'm going. We are looking for our present under the wrong tree.
    I'm not sure how much time you've spent dealing with Somalis, or Syrians, or Iranians, etc., but he looked like a plain-jane, khat-chewing Somali "skinny" to me with that same detached expression that 35% of the taxi-drivers have here where I live. Whether he looks like a "fruitcake" or not, those guys seem to have no trouble shouldering an RPG and touching it off when they want to. Looking "befuddled" or being a "teen" has no bearing on what's between his ears or the level of threat he poses.

    I'm with you on the foreign exchange students who go to our universities while attending virulently anti-American madrasses and mosques here. Looking back in history, I can't help but wonder how frickin' long an American president like Harry Truman would have tolerated that sort of crap before he had the ******** deported en masse.

    You lost me on your comment about looking under the wrong tree for our present.

    Seems to me we should be checking for it under ever tree, rock, bush, or pile of roadside trash we can find. If every would-be lone wolf terrorist has to worry that his "contact" is a federal snitch, or an undercover federal agent, then that will give him pause. Lone wolf types by definition are forced to reach out to others they "trust" for assistance in carrying out their plans. That or they have to tighten down their opsec and limit their contacts to fellow radical muslims. Which in turn makes them more vulnerable because its easier for us to track them. Plus, no matter how loudly they parrot the jihadi rhetoric, there's always a percentange of them who have fat mouths, who prefer our lifestyle and our women to eating chick peas around a camel dung fire back home...and they'll leak info to us just as long as we keep looking under every tree. That goes for the "educated" militarized terrorists as well as the "fruitcake" lone wolf types. You have to keep looking under every rock and hope you stay lucky.

    Sure be nice if our politicians had some backbone, though. We can't scrape by on luck forever. Rashid and his travelling terror show is coming. I'm glad there's a place where defensive shooters can talk. The times that a firearm has made a difference in interdicting a terrorist attack, it's been because somebody was right there, right then, with a gun, and wrecked the momentum of the attack before it could get underway.
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  11. #55
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    I hope the FBI continue to be careful when they set this sort of thing up, and that other LEO forces take advice on how to do it right, because just a few mistakes can make the whole mess look like they suckered some moron. There are plenty of people just waiting for a chance to trash the police and the US justice system. They don't need any help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowman366 View Post
    You lost me on your comment about looking under the wrong tree for our present.
    Let me try it again. Want to prevent terror, its the smart guys who will pull off the big deals, not the lone riffraff wanna be.

    Muhammad Atta had a Master's degree. Hassan, obviously an MD +

    Its the quiet studious ones who go under the radar and have the smarts to plot, to plan, to be creative. Catching a dude like this fool in Oregon is picking the lowest fruit from the lowest branches. If we really are serious about preventing significant terror attacks we need to be looking at those with the greatest ability to harm us, not the ones with lots of motivation but only limited ability to harm us.

    So, in our search for terrorists that might actually pull it off, we need to be looking assiduously at our foreign students and foreign born faculty, and professionals who have moved here from wherever, Saudi, Somalia, Yemen, Iraq, even Turkey, even Germany and the UK. That is what I meant by the statement we are looking for the presents (terrorists) under the wrong tree (the wrong place).

    In other words, I'm not impressed at all that this guy was caught. He walked around telling people he was a terrorist. Duh!!!

    Snowman wrote: " I can't help but wonder how frickin' long an American president like Harry Truman would have tolerated that sort of crap before he had the ******** deported en masse."

    I'm not going to advocate for that, but a 5 year moratorium on new foreign students would do wonders for both our security and our universities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Muhammad Atta had a Master's degree. Hassan, obviously an MD +

    Its the quiet studious ones who go under the radar and have the smarts to plot, to plan, to be creative. Catching a dude like this fool in Oregon is picking the lowest fruit from the lowest branches. If we really are serious about preventing significant terror attacks we need to be looking at those with the greatest ability to harm us, not the ones with lots of motivation but only limited ability to harm us.
    Ah...gotcha. Thanks.

    I guess my feeling is that we should attempt to stop all terrorist attacks, not just the significant ones.

    Atta and Hassan weren't under the radar, by any means. We knew about them but no one had the political will to call a spade a spade and take action on them. I'm not sure that it takes a lot of plotting, planning or creativity to stash a couple of high-capacity handguns on your person and stroll into a gun-free environment with lots of people present, yell "Allahu Akbar" and start shooting until you run out of ammo, or a cop shows up to shoot you down. An armed "fool" can do that as easily as an armed PhD.

    Seems like our intel people have been trying to keep tabs on foreign-born students and faculty. I'm sure you recall the feds arresting that jihadi professor at Florida State a couple years ao, for example. We've gotta do better, though. Somehow.
    I count myself nowise weaker in war, or grapple of battle, than Grendel himself. --- The Beowulf Epic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Catching a dude like this fool in Oregon is picking the lowest fruit from the lowest branches. If we really are serious about preventing significant terror attacks...
    This is pretty freakin significant to me! I HAD FAMILY IN THAT CROWD!!

    So don't try to tell me that this plot was "low level" or INSIGNIFICANT!

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    I think a better comparison is that we need to try to get rid of the trunk of the tree. Taking out the planers will do more than taking out the pawns. Think of that sinking feeling when you lose your queen in a chest game to a brilliant move by your opponent. However ceasing to bring in international students to our universities is probably not a good move in the long run. First of it will just cause a decline in our system as the best and brightest move to other schools, i.e. European and British schools. Second of I think it would have a sever negative effect on our soft power in the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xader View Post
    This is pretty freakin significant to me! I HAD FAMILY IN THAT CROWD!!

    So don't try to tell me that this plot was "low level" or INSIGNIFICANT!
    The plot would have gone nowhere as the dude had no ability to pull it off ---he had intent, but no ability, hence no jeopardy to you or yours if you want to keep it in terms we are used to using here for SD discussions.

    Crazy he is. Full of himself and filled with grandiose thinking about what he would like to do. Psychopathic indifference to life, clearly. But ability is something else.

    This planned attack was spectacular only because of the amount of "explosives" he received from his FBI handlers. Without that, he'd be in his apartment plotting in a disorganized way and getting nowhere, and you'd never have heard a thing about him and your family would have been safe--as they were in any case.

    The dangerous people have a different profile. The big deal stuff such as the World Trade Towers bombing in the 1990s and 9/11 weren't hatched or carried out by loners. Those took team efforts, took coordinated leadership, took smart "together" people to pull off.

    So, I'm not impressed with this Oregon dude's having been caught. I hope there are no functional cells here, but I'd be a lot more impressed if there were a raid on a math department somewhere. Those are the type of folks who can pull off major destruction without using what we all think of as weapons of destruction. (Not casting stones at mathematicians, just saying that we need to be looking in the right places for our really bad BGs.)

    How many foreign students have we schooled -- thousands and thousand-- in genetic engineering. That's the kind of stuff that can kill off our crops if used creatively. Again, we are searching for our presents under the wrong tree.

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